Posts by johnnyc

21

Freewill or Ultimatum?

by cameo-d in

what is the difference?.

was adam given freewill or ultimatum?.

The key piece of info here is the fact God gave Adam life. Adam had the right not to accept that gift - the freedom of choice. If Adam accepted the gift, it would be subject to conditions which God informed Adam of immediately. What does it tell you about human intuition when all you are told is not to eat a certain thing, but that "thing" becomes the only thing you want to eat. And so here we are today... Keep in mind though about love that comes from God. He could have left it our problem, but he showed that his Son would suffer every bit as much as any human could - to death. You may say billions dead cannot equal the ransom of one man, but no one has experienced death more than once, and though some may have suffered more than Jesus - not by much - that number would be very few. Since it is "relative" to each person who experiences death, the one death of a perfect man greatly outweighs every death that will and has occurred. He has showed us that he too suffered for our behalf. For me, that means I owe Him my life - but that, is the free choice we all will make. Johnny

19

What do you think about the Muratorian Canon?

by Awakened at Gilead in

in doing research on this subject, i noticed that the society uses this fragment as a basis for the canon of the nt.

theevidenceofearlycatalogs.

a glance at the accompanying chart reveals that a number of fourth-century catalogs of the christian scriptures, dated prior to the above-mentioned council, agree exactly with our present canon, and some others omit only revelation.

johnnyc

Lance - this is a subject I am very familiar with. Whereas the phase "Catholic" is translated into, the exact word in Greek simply means "whole" or "complete" (katholikos). The reality is that even translations of these older documents use words in Greek that translate to English subjectively. Bishop is not actually Bishop and could be translated "Deacon"(d?a?????) in, and Priest could be translated "Elder"(p?esß?te???) or Presbyter. The early church started using the term (as translated subjectively) "Catholic" to refer to the whole church acting together. The actual name was "The Way". There is so much info in what you are researching here it is truly ridiculous. I would point you to read the writings of Clement of Rome to start - as he makes references to the cannon used at the time. Call me if you want to discuss further. Added: I guess some of my Greek fonts dont show up (therefore it shows "?"), so if you want that info I will email.

20

CT Russell was not the only wacky pyramidologist

by Awakened at Gilead in

i just finished reading a 1943 essay by bertrand russell (not related to crackpot ctr as far as i know, lol) where he discusses his cynical viewpoint of religious beliefs.

towards the end of his essay, he indicates that, instead of being disgusted by people who believe crazy implausibilities, he is actually somewhat amused, even entertained, by some of them, when their beliefs are generally harmless to the rest of the population.

after listing a few of these what he terms superstitions that "add to the gaity of life", he makes an interesting statement that jws should pay attention to:.

johnnyc

I started reading through Russell's work - Bertrand, not CT. Anyway, I came across this quote which I thought was very insightful. "The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell

9

If you cheat on me, I will forgive you, but not if you leave Jehovah

by Hiddenwindow in

jw
friends

when i told my wife that i no longer believe the wt is the truth, she started crying and said that it was easier for her to forgive me if i am unfaithful to her than if i leave the wt.

i am sure now: being a witness is a form of mental illness.

johnnyc

My wife made a very similar statement to me recently. I found out that she will not be with me if I am not a JW. What is odd is that I was inactive for many years, but recently when I said if I get DF'd I will not come back, she told me that it will be the end for us - we have been married for 12 years! - and we get along fine otherwise. In fact, even worse, I had to forgive her about 6 years ago for adultery with someone who molested her as a child - apparently he had some control over her (a "brother" in the hall - he was 20 and she was 12). She has been a full time pioneer the last few years, but talk about unreal....I was loyal to her even when I had an out, and she is willing to leave me over something like that. To top it off, we just had a baby boy four months ago. Now that she said that I don't think I can ever make it work. What do you guys think????

What is really odd is that the society and elders would tell her how wrong that is, and that she would need to stay my wife no matter what - so who's fault is it?? In fact, if she were to try and remarry (without me doing so first or "freeing" her) she would have a committee and could be DF'd. Do people just take their own improper viewpoints too far?

7

United Brotherhood - even in the reverse...?

by johnnyc in

its a bit odd to me to finally understand what "united brotherhood" means from this web site.

even though i traveled for work, i was not the guy to make sure to go to every meeting abroad.

in fact, i didn't even once go to another "branch" office.

johnnyc

Its a bit odd to me to finally understand what "United Brotherhood" means from this web site. Even though I traveled for work, I was not the guy to make sure to go to every meeting abroad. In fact, I didn't even once go to another "branch" office. I was only told from my local congregation that what I would experience here (locally) would be the same sort of thing (they said love) experienced globally at any Kingdom Hall. After reading through this web site, with everyone coming from every sort of place on this earth, it is funny to see there is the exact same experience to be had - so they were right. I will leave it to the readers discretion if they think that is a good thing or bad thing, but hey - it is a thing. If that is their "modus operandus" then they obviously are hitting their mark. Most JW's hear of this, but not many actually see it. Should I try to direct them all here?? (lol)

91

Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question

by johnnyc in

i know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".

recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.

during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.

johnnyc

I guess I should clarify one thing. As many who have been involved with Judicial matters will know, even comments that might come from a CO to (ie my father who is an elder) are done without clarity. When my father tells me things he always says things like "the CO was "hinting" and "suggesting". Without being actually part of the 6 elders (and CO) who are involved, they don't really state things as "matter of fact". Imagine if the CO said matter of fact that the appeal committee has reversed the decision and the society comes back supporting the original committee - the CO might be in hot water for saying something like that to my father. So....again, when you are looking for clarity like I am, it seems like that is exactly what they want to avoid. This really is part of the major problem with the WTBTS and probably what turns so many people "off". Even if you wanted to believe Jesus and Paul spoke about DFing (not actually Jesus), it is hard to imagine they meant to create a complex system out of it like this. It is degrading on a persons moral and wrecks havoc on family life. Johnny

91

Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question

by johnnyc in

i know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".

recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.

during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.

johnnyc

As you suspect, there is no meeting for the society appeal - just in writing - back and forth. Yes, I did get an indication through my father that the appeal committee decided to reverse the decision. It is unfortunate that it seems the original committee did not yield to the appeal committees decision - but that is a bit of a guess as to why it is taking so long for me to hear back. I just know the first part for sure. Perhaps there is something else that is weighing on their minds. Johnny

91

Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question

by johnnyc in

i know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".

recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.

during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.

johnnyc

Yes, a person can appeal saying they were repentant in the original committee hearing - and the original committee is there for the appeal, the whole time. I did ask to speak with the appeal committee separately, which they allowed for a segment of the appeal. You can appeal an appeal committee's decision, but only to the Society - which is your last appeal before they will announce the DFing. They say you can write the Society even after that if there is new information for them to consider, but once they announce, it is virtually impossible to reverse it. In fact, it may be virtually impossible to reverse it from the original committee - but I think the appeal committee did find reason to reverse my situation - as stated to my father by the CO. Now I wait because the original committee is not yielding to the new decision. My understanding is that if there is a split decision, the Society always goes with mercy - unless it involves child molestation. -Johnny

91

Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question

by johnnyc in

i know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".

recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.

during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.

johnnyc

Mary: Again, I guess it is in the viewpoint. I did find some new info I just read (although from 1961) on Mind Control which supports your position. It stated (paraphrasing 2 sections):

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.

Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.

These are used to identify "Mind Control" techniques - per Dr. Lifton MD. So based upon what you are saying, and the relationship the WTBTS has with its members - you would be right. Although, thinking about it further, I guess many (if not all) religions meet this criteria - don't they?? For that matter, could these be applied to Jesus - and the nation of Israel's theocratic arrangement? From these definitions of what "Mind Control" is, a great deal of religion is caught up in the same thing. Am I wrong???

91

Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question

by johnnyc in

i know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".

recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.

during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.

johnnyc

isaacaustin: btw, thank you for wishing me the best in my appeal - i appreciate it. I think it is very hard to get things like this overturned, but I have a good feeling it will be.