i know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".
recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.
during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.
It does sound harsh and I think you have grounds for appeal.
I think some on here can give you info on how to do that.properly but if not goto an elder you know well and ask for details on how to Appeal formally they will be obliged to tell you,
I know some that have appealed and had df's squashed.
I wish you well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn8t8pihina&feature=related
Come on confess which JWD member is it ^^
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
lol I think on this threadall sides have had a fair bite of preaching their side, lol the hymm section in the middle erm not to be missed,
and on using position of someone not prove that they are not the same person how about this....
Psalm 110:1
[ Of David. A psalm. ] The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my righthand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."
Matthew 22:44
" 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my righthand until I put your enemies under your feet." '
Matthew 26:64
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the righthand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the righthand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own righthand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel
Acts 7:55
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the righthand of God.
Acts 7:56
"Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the righthand of God."
Ephesians 1:20
which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his righthand in the heavenly realms
Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the righthand of the Majesty in heaven.
- Hebrews 8:1
[ The High Priest of a New Covenant ] The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the righthand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
Hebrews 8:1-3 (in Context) Hebrews 8 (Whole Chapter)- Hebrews 10:12
But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the righthand of God.
Hebrews 10:11-13 (in Context) Hebrews 10 (Whole Chapter)
1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at God's righthand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
how many times does the bible put jesus at Gods right hand? well these are just a few and they all keep God and Jesus completely separate so by the arguments that if two are in different position then God and jesus are not the same.
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
Actually deputy your life was saved by a man! anything more would not have meant an equality with adam who was just a man that sinned.
The bible only says Jesus emptied himself to be able to be a man.
You say jesus is simply an angel but how do you define an angel if you read my post the word angel just means messenger and does not describe fully the spiritual beings that are angels, remember I think jesus is an archangel so there is a difference.
Are you saying that unless God died for you the sacrifice is not worthy of you? to be despised?
reniaa
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
hi mattfs
lol joseph just covered it :)
Acts 2:23-25
23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, [a] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him: " 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
hey isaacaustin
I find it ironic you argue against michael being jesus by virtue of 2 different positions and yet will not use this same rule with jesus and God when jesus is always pictured separately like in the above scripture on god's right hand and thats not separate visions but in the same one.
reniaa
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
I have found this quite interesting reading and have my own reason for believing Jesus is God.
One day a person comes up to you and says here read this book and decide what God you want.
The book is divided into 2 parts so you start reading the first part it starts of really nice telling us how the world was created. You start thinking what a nice person this God is (we find out later in the second part of the book who he really is) You carry on reading and after a while you start to read about this God killing everyone apart from 8 people and all the animals. So he almost starts again but people won’t worship him so he has them killed. Just because he can. You read that millions were killed. This God by the way is called Jehovah. This God wants and demands worship. As people had free will they wanted to do as they wished and not follow laws set by this God.
Then we go onto the second part of the book and the God we find here is different from the other God. This God only has 2 commandments and they are about love he tells us to forgive people and not to judge them. He tells us to forgive them over and over again. He wants us to love one another. The name of this God is Jesus and it was through him all things were made. This God did lots of wonderful things because of love. This God then died for us not just for me but for everyone of us. So our sins could be forgiven.
Now I believe that the God in the first part of the book did not really understand us humans so he had to empty himself of everything apart from Love and come down to live as one of us. Then he could see we needed guidance, love and understanding. Not to be bullied into worshiping him.
If you had to choose which God was the best who would you chose
As a Christian I know Jesus is my saviour amyfa
Amyfa It's interesting to see how just on this one forum we have so many different ways of viewing God,
From extreme trinitarians to more looser trinity interpretations, to joseph and myself that maybe will have different viewpoints on other subjects but in this case we both only believe in One God and that Jesus is his son.
Lovelylil
I couldn't do a better job than joseph in answering your queries he put clearly what I thought, that you can't say something is separate but then make it one for convenience, for me trinity is trying to have the best of both worlds trying to fit two opposites together, saying God can function as 3 separate entites even having conversations with each other then saying they are One being. For me there just isn't enough proof texts in the bible to support this viewpoint, what I get from the bible is jesus as God son is extremely alike with his Father but not actually God himself.
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
lol and also keeps jesus a separate entity from God too! in Enoch, thats why catholics are not big fans of enoch! it certainly doesn't promote the trinitarian doctrine at all. Seems to be more involved with Angels sex lifes.
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
hi lovelylil
Enoch is appocrypha meaning it hasn't got Gods seal of approval, it is written apparently by enoch but since he was pre-flood this is impossible so it came from someone afterwards, there is absolutly no doubt it was considered not inspired by God but a work of man by all those from that time, but also it isn't the only outside book that appostles quote from, but quoting specific bits does not make the whole acceptable just the bit quoted which might be the only grain of truth in a highly romanticised piece of work....
The Book of Enoch describes the fall of the Watchers, the angels who fathered the Nephilim (cf. the b e ne Elohim, Genesis 6:1-2 ). The fallen angels went to Enoch to intercede on their behalf with God after he declared to them their doom. The remainder of the book describes Enoch's visit to Heaven in the form of a vision, and his revelations.
The book contains descriptions of the movement of heavenly bodies (in connection with Enoch's trip to Heaven), and some parts of the book have been speculated about [citation needed] as containing instructions for the construction of a solar declinometer (the Uriel's machine theory).
Some of the fallen angels that are given in 1 Enoch have other names such as Rameel ('morning of God'), who becomes Azazel and is also called Gadriel ('wall of God') in Chapter 69. Another example is that Araqiel ('Earth of God') becomes Aretstikapha ('world of distortion') in Chapter 69.
"Azaz" as in Azazel means strength, so the name Azazel can refer to strength of God. But the sense in which it is used most-probably means impudent (showing strength towards) which comes out as arrogant to God. This is also a key point to his being Satan in modern thought.
The suffix of the names 'el' means 'God' (List of names referring to El) which is used in the names of high ranking angels. The Archangels all include this such as Uriel (Flame of God) or Michael "who is like God?".
Another is given as Gadrel, who is said to have tempted Eve.
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
I didn't think this was that hard to answer.
What came down from heaven? A human? An angel? A human/angel hybred?
sorry deputy dog I missed your message
What is an Angel? wiki says...
The word "angel" in English (from Old English and German Engel), French (from Old French angele), Spanish, and many other Romance languages are derived from the Latinangelus, itself derived from Koine Greek: ???e???, angelos, "messenger" (pl. ???e???). [1] The ultimate etymology of that word in Greek is uncertain. [2]
In Hebrew & Arabic the primary term for "angel" is "malakh" ( ???????? ), "malaika", or "malak" (????) derived from the Semitic consonantal root l-'-k (?-?-?), meaning "to send." This root is also found in the noun "Melakha" ( ???????? ), meaning "work", and the noun "Mal'achut" (??????), meaning "message". Other words referring to angels include ???? kruv [3] describing young children, from which the English word "cherub" is derived. Another Hebrew term is Gil-Gulim, meaning "revolving," and angels are sometimes depicted as wheels with wings. Derived from this is the Hebrew term "Gal-Gal," "the rotation of fortune, change." [4]
An angel is a spiritualsupernatural being found in many religions. Although the nature of angels and the tasks given to them vary from tradition to tradition, in Christianity, Judaism and Islam, they often act as messengers from God. Other roles in religious traditions include acting as warrior or guard; the concept of a "guardian angel" is popular in modern Western culture.
Angels are usually viewed as emanations of a supreme divine being, sent to do the tasks of that being. Traditions vary as to whether angels have free will or are merely extensions of the supreme being's will. While the appearance of angels also varies, many views of angels give them a human shape.
they are certainly beings from the spritual realm, we know jesus lived in the spiritual. we also know he 'emptied' himself to become man (this some take to mean he is God but you can apply it equally to him being any spiritual being since we are classed as being a little lower than angels), You tell me would jesus's death have counted if he was still part angel when he died? We know from bible Angels can take on human form they did before the flood.
Is this a good point to mention that God supposedly cannot die and yet Jesus did! doesn't that in itself prove Jesus isn't God.
Jesus had access to holy spirit to use as he would as a man on earth to heal others and bring praise to his father.
I'm struggling here to see what this question brings to discussion of whether jesus is God or not?
i thought after recently reading the bible i would put up for disussion some recent scriptures up which for me show that jesus never viewed himself as god and anyone listening would also see it this way too.. first mark 10 :17-20.
17as jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"good teacher," he asked, "what must i do to inherit eternal life?
hi sacolton I'm glad of this question because it made me research the whole voice thing could it just be a random archangels voice consider the following.....
- Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice, and with God's trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first. Thessalonians 4:16 Greens Literal Translation
Now lets see what Christ said when He was on Earth.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
- Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
The only voice mentioned in thess here is an archangels voice for the dead to hear but that voice to call them is the son of Gods? how can this be? unless son of God and the archangel are one and the same.
its an interesting quandary!
Reniaa
