Posts by reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

wouldn't be so sure about that. Look at Paul in these verses:
Rom 7:15
For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want .

This wasn't Paul "before Jesus". Again look at:

Rom 7:24
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Remember all this is Paul after his conversion.
Now look at what Paul says to do about the flesh:

Rom 6:11
Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin , but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

I would ask you to show me where Paul says to: strive "against the flesh".

I have definite fellow feeling with romans 7:18 it could have been written for me.

all those scriptures in romans I agree with, and to me they speak of not giving into sin, you know lutherians wouldn't have happened if the catholic church in its wisdom hadn't started selling future pardons! like buying tickets to a ball game but in this case tickets to a future sin so you were already forgiven before you did it, How nuts is that? now back to what you ask me,

hmmm i wonder if i was thinking of thorn in his flesh...

2 Corinthians 12:6-8 (New International Version)

6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say.
7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me

anyway your scriptures say it better than mine and i enjoyed checking them all out. thankyou deputy dog

7

Most damning portion?

by Slappy in

apparently this didn't post the first time...or my comp is just acting up; sorry if there ends up being two of these.. *************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************.

is luke 23:39-43 the single most damning portion in the bible for the jw, mormon, and other similar 'religions' that profess to believe in the god of the bible?

when did the thief do good works in order to attain his salvation?

reniaa

you gotta know I would check this up Password and wiki says it can also mean the garden of eden, and when jesus says the meek shall inherit the earth, it with a view to earth completely becoming the garden of eden paradise so to speak.

so it does have a double-meaning

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

Hi isaacaustin and mrsjones this is a contraversial scripture as no one can be 100% which days months and years hes refering too, some say its jewish days but others say since galations was pagan lol it was refering to pagan feasts and suchlike. Opinion is mixed on it. So its one all reading must draw there own conclusions from reading in context.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

I see a few o you are stuck on the pagan thing it isn't just that although being "unevenly yoked" is the principle in NT regards to some of the holidays but also Jws use the principle in galations

8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

why would paul caution them on this?

hi Outlaw you misled me you used the word rejoice but they didn't they praised God! lol I should have looked this up biblically before not just in a dictionary ^^

International Standard Version (©2008)
Suddenly a multitude of the Heavenly Army appeared with the angel, praising God by saying,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Suddenly, a large army of angels appeared with the angel. They were praising God by saying,
King James Bible
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
American King James Version
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
American Standard Version
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Bible in Basic English
And suddenly there was with the angel a great band of spirits from heaven, giving praise to God, and saying,

so our whole discussion on the meaning of the word rejoice is pointless or are you going to say the word praise means celebration now?

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

hi there jgnat

You might find we have a great more in common than you care to admit

there are many commonalities in all the christian faiths but jehovah's witnesses and other faiths that don't support the trinity have one big difference that makes one massive barrier...Jesus is not seen as God and the song you used was singing about God with the usual trinity theme words while it is very nice it's like a jarring note running through the tune.

How do you feel if your hubby plays a kingdom melody on Jehovah or you hear one at the kingdom hall would not that be a jarring note for you?

My own dislike is to have praise to jesus as God and hallelujah in the same song its so ambigious to any who know the true meaning of hallelujah.

Even if I never became a witness my feelings on the bible means I could never join a christian faith that worshiped Jesus as God, that probably makes 97% of all christian faiths unavailable to me, I will always be an Arian christian.

ps mother's day does have pagan roots, father's day was just a 20th century addition to mother's day, and thanksgiving is a harvest festival which themselve have pagan roots but paganism isn't the only reason the holidays aren't observed.

Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

Reniaa...I have not been online all weekend and am not going to reply to anything past that was written by others here...I will jump in right here...
you said
hi deputy dog your scriptures are ones I agree with certainly that no amount of good works on our part could save us before jesus is a given but does that mean we assumed as saved people we a no longer have to avoid sinning?
My answer....I do believe in once saved always saved. Let me explain. When one is truly saved they WILL NOT intentionally sin. Yes, they may slip up and fall back into sin...but they will not cherish sin. They will look at sin differently. They will try to avoid sinning. Not that I am judge...but in a scenario where one claims to be saved yet constantly goes back into sin INTENTIONALLY AND CHERISHES IT...I would then question whether they are truly saved.
Salvation itself is a free gift...not earned or brought about in any way, shape or form by works. Works do not earn us favor before Jehovah with the hopes that at judgment day he will feel we did enough so can make it in. It is faith.

I agree with nearly all you said but the last, if faith alone is/was enough what is the purpose of this scripture in james 2?

14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless [ d ] ? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," [ e ] and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

this is probably one of the most contraversial scriptures in the bible in defining what the intent of it is? I've read many attempts at defining it but it does seem to show that some action on our part is needed even though the gift is free.

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

hi Razor ehhh thank you I think but if you want a good debator you should look up third witness, lol I'm a newbie compared to him/them

hi deputy dog your scriptures are ones I agree with certainly that no amount of good works on our part could save us before jesus is a given but does that mean we assumed as saved people we a no longer have to avoid sinning?

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

hi Outlaw well you got the only answers you get from me on your loaded question but let me ask you one, If your all telling me christmas isn't pagan because no one remembers its pagan roots, doesn't it by the same token no longer become christian when it loses any pretense to christianity and becomes a feast day to santa and prezzies called Xmas? Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

Hi, Reniaa!
I don't believe in the Bible or JW religion. I believe in the Wiccan Rede, which is the Golden Rule. That part I believe in. I like the Jesus character, not that I believe that he actually existed as the Bible says. I don't believe that one needs anything more than the Rede or Golden Rule to live good lives.

hi whitedove thank you for you reply, I have to say wiccan is one of the faiths I haven't explored but golden rule sounds something similar to what you would find in the NT 'Do unto others as you would do to them' to paraphrase it, is it similar?

Reniaa

407

Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?

by reniaa in

i have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.

there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.

reniaa

hi jgnat

Ah, reniaa. The princess of deflection. I wasn't talking about dullness, gift giving, or generosity at all. I suggested that biblically speaking, JW's should be marking many more holidays than they are. Besides the biblical examples I also suggested that children need marked, regularly scheduled rituals and holidays. Maybe this helps them to solidify their childhood memories and for their emotional development. It makes sense that if the marking of holidays is faithfully recorded in the bible, and that there is an obvious benefit for children and adults to regularly celebrate, we should be doing it. You claim to depend on the bible for your morality.Yet you show a marked preference for WT doctrine. Some of your ideas are decidedly extra-biblical.
On the positive side, you have noted that adults also benefit from ritual. Yes, they do. I'll repeat one question, because I think it spurs thinking rather than just flinging opinions about (something I think all of us are prone to do).
Just a thought, Reniaa. Would the Jewish festivals be considered as part of the "law"? Are they an obligation or a celebration?

arhh I see were you are getting at now, I wasn't deflecting just misunderstanding the point you were expressing, your saying it's a human need for markers to? hmmm I can only speak from my own experience and as a born in JW I had markers but they were just different, vacations became markers, assemblies became markers I enjoyed preparing for them always around the same time of year.

Just a thought, Reniaa. Would the Jewish festivals be considered as part of the "law"? Are they an obligation or a celebration?

I'm not quite sure were you are going with this question but yes I think some were set out for them to celebrate especially passover but the NT is very clear we as christians are no longer required to celebrate them, but are you making the point that the principle of festivals is there? thats a good point, witnesses do have parties and suchlike but without a specific label on them, it's harder for them because you have to remind yourself rather than have the marker up as a constant reminder but if we celebrate something, are you responsible for what you celebrate, the content and it's theme? Does the need for festivals outweigh the need for accuracy? personally I think as Christians we are responsible for content to and held accountable, need is not reason enough in my opinion but I take it you disagree?

Reniaa