Haereticus

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Posts by Haereticus

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  96

  Email to my Dad on the UN / Prison Stories

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok......it has taken me lots of soul searching to put this post up (it contains some facts i dont really feel all that comfortable putting up).

  but i will try and leave out here for as long as i can.. it is an email i have sent to my dad.

  it is a followup - he has some of the info on the un already.

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  Haereticus

  msil

  I share your feelings and opinions and see no reason to try to achieve "a hero status". As you put it this word prison is something special and people get easily carried astray when speaking of if.

  I sometimes get consolation especially from my daughter's attitude after the long and painful period to see her mother dying of once already won cancer. She at the age of 14 was my hero and still is. I believe there are large number of people around that would go through worse hardships than we did to get back their untimely died child.

  My father never told war stories he only made a few sarcastic remarks over the years. Today I would not pay so much attention after all these years. Now the thing has grown together into a one question of principle.

  Nearby here lives a dutchman aged 76, he is an 100 % atheist and went underground during WWII and was finally jailed. It is refreshing to talk about this subject with him as we do not exchange experiences but talk mainly of the basic idea of pacifism etc.

  Time and talking or in fact writing are good means of smoothing difficulties.
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  25

  Changing the Watchtowers charitable status (UK)

  by nicolaou in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the uk charity commission lists 'the advancement of religion' as one of its 'first group charitable purposes'.. it makes the "general assumption that the advancement of religion is for the public benefit".

  the advancement of religion.

  for the advancement of religion to be charitable, a religion has to:.

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  Haereticus

  It may be my shortcoming of english language but plain charity is something that was denied or avoided when I was a young JW some 40 years ago. Then several years ago I downloaded this famous guideline for elders (Pay Attention .....). Page 11 states: "Watch for opportunities to help others, even physically."

  Page 12 goes to pinpoints concrete examples: "A pioneer has car trouble." Which I guess should read for Finland as: "A pioneer has central heating problem."

  "An elderly widow needs help applying for social services." and "A single parent or a widow has a leaking roof." This is something that goes without saying from my point of view. Charity to me is something else than just giving help in an acute situation.

  Proper preparation & planning prevents piss poor performance - Awul Dasfilshabeda and Nowaynayda Zheet
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  96

  Email to my Dad on the UN / Prison Stories

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok......it has taken me lots of soul searching to put this post up (it contains some facts i dont really feel all that comfortable putting up).

  but i will try and leave out here for as long as i can.. it is an email i have sent to my dad.

  it is a followup - he has some of the info on the un already.

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  Haereticus

  somebody

  Thank you for your comment. Once taking a stand and enduring the foreknown concequences is not the main issue here. I do not think any of us would seek unjust pity for what we went through. After all it was our choice to fight a fine fight for the faith.

  This reminds me of the old saying: It is not the picking of nose that takes me but eating the snot.

  I would have never ever believed that my 40 years old decision has to be revisited and will be brought to shame. That's what it boils down to - at least with me. At the same time we have to bear in mind that the vast majority of similar and worse experiences is never published on this forum.
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  19

  How long out? Why still here?

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some posters to this board, who perhaps are bored posters, have been out of the wts for a long while, some for decades.

  i think i understand why you still feel the need to meet here but just wished to hear from you personally.. how long have you been out?

  why do you still feel the need to discuss and involve yourselves with jw issues?

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  Haereticus

  hillary_step

  I am a newcomer here and do not know of the past history of messages. I was disfellowshipped somewhere around 1970 and have forfotten the exact date as I received a written notice while working abroad.

  I have never lost my interest to Bible nor had any hard feelings towards JW's and the organization. As I already worked abroad DF was no big deal - knowingly none of my workmates at Sahara oilfield were JW's. My feelings were not really mixed and had good time to settle.

  I am here for just one simple reason and it is this recent incident. Despite of my position outside the organization I felt that the time I served for my neutrality was not wasted. After this recent incident I am unable to feel the same way anymore.

  Haereticus

  Proper preparation & planning prevents piss poor performance - Awul Dasfilshabeda and Nowaynayda Zheet
• 
  96

  Email to my Dad on the UN / Prison Stories

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok......it has taken me lots of soul searching to put this post up (it contains some facts i dont really feel all that comfortable putting up).

  but i will try and leave out here for as long as i can.. it is an email i have sent to my dad.

  it is a followup - he has some of the info on the un already.

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  Haereticus

  msil

  It moves me how similar our experiences were and yet how similar our wievs are today. As I wrote my message late last night I have had few and could not hold back my tears. This act of nullifying the neutrality for which you and others have fought is hard to bear.

  If by any change you feel it would be of any avail you can drop me an e-mail to [email protected]

  We were determined and still are.
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  96

  Email to my Dad on the UN / Prison Stories

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok......it has taken me lots of soul searching to put this post up (it contains some facts i dont really feel all that comfortable putting up).

  but i will try and leave out here for as long as i can.. it is an email i have sent to my dad.

  it is a followup - he has some of the info on the un already.

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  2. 
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  Haereticus

  msil

  Your experience brings back hars memories. One major difference is that we never experienced physical violence. Just loss of personal freedom is hard enough but especially the "softening" solitary confinement periods required determination. I remember when released (1968) just walking first steps on an asphalt felt strange because for more than two years I had been walking on a soft soil for an hour daily. That included emptying out a plastic bucket that was used as a toilet. No radio allowed, outgoing mail was restricted to four letters a month, one visitor per month etc.

  I felt proud and that was a fight for my faith in Jehovah. My disfellowshipping 30 years ago did not change my attitude for the time served. I felt that I had accomplished something for future generation. And after few years JW's were exempted.

  Recent events did hit me hard, I felt betrayed and all sort of feelings. I wrote to this forum and as mother and sister are still JW and i had to write a letter about my feelings. To get by easy I addressed the only letter to my sister - addressing it to my mother would have probably cut short the information chain.

  Msil - we both know that these impossible to forget. Because of my age (55) it is unlike to face the same again. Yet I am prepared to do something I feel is right but possible second round is my private fight and unlikely along with Jehovah Witnesses.
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  2

  Intesa

  by Haereticus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  somewhat familiar helsinki came up so many times that i started searching for jehovah at http://www.csce.gov/helsinki.cfm i found a csce document "deteriorating religious liberties in europe".

  this meeting held july 30.

  1998 had interesting connection to the society.

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  Haereticus

  Somewhat familiar Helsinki came up so many times that I started searching for Jehovah at http://www.csce.gov/helsinki.cfm I found a CSCE document "Deteriorating Religious Liberties in Europe". This meeting held July 30. 1998 had interesting connection to the Society. Mr Colby May a Senior Counsel in the Office of Governmental Affairs of the American center for Law and Justice was questioned by James Pellecchia from Public Affairs International for Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Go and load this pdf-file where on page 19 mr May replies: "On the other hand, I hope that the process of granting to the Watch Tower Society what we call an Intesa, or a sort of concordat in Italy......Intesa is much more than being recognized, it is really entering into cooperative agreement with the government."

  To my view religious deterioration in this respect has rather taken place somewhere else.
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  15

  Judah Schroeder and the Helsinki Kommission!

  by Kent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  pressrelease from bellona usa .

  congressional briefing .

  helsinki commission joins russian parliamentarian in human rights, nikitin debate.

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  Haereticus

  Kent

  You wrote: "SeaShepered is an environment terrorist organisation"

  Bellona carried out criminal activities some years ago in Finland. I would't join any of those three mentioned.
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  25

  to all who were DF'd

  by somebody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi folks,.

  i'm doing some interesting research on the procedure of reinstatement back into the org.. if anyone here can relate how many months/years passed by from the time you got df'd, till the time you got reinstated, it would be very helpful.

  also include how often elders met with you, if you attended meetings regularly during the time you were df'd, and if you approached the elders for reinstatement(and how many times you approached them), or they approached you.

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  Haereticus

  Somebody

  I was DF'd about 30 years ago and roughly 8 years ago an elder phoned me twice and told that there is a campaign going on to contact people like me. He brought up the fact that I had married and had two kids and so on so forth. All the years since my chilghood this very elder ignored me and it was still obvious when I returned from prison refusing army service. After more than two years time one would have appreciated even one slightly warm word. The campaing must be true because this elder had guts to contact me.

  I am still DF'd and in wiev of recent incident glad not being collectively and secretly represented in UN.
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  17

  What media outlets have you contacted?

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would like to get a sense of what media outlets have been contacted so far.

  who has contacted the media?

  what media have you contacted?

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  Haereticus

  detective

  I had a fruitfull discussion and have provided him a list of related links. I suppose he will contact the local Branch and possibly wait for other signs. I will report any progress I run across in this matter.

  We have to bear in mind that this type of news is not so hot here as it would be for example in East Coast. Traditionally this type of news is no news at all here.

  I am working on other contacts as well.