Posts by 10p

23

Wild Speculations About Future Watchtower Changes

by DT in

jw
friends

here are some of my predictions.

i would enjoy hearing yours.. 1. the new merged meeting will eventually be shortened, perhaps to an hour and a half.. 2. more changes about the generation and 1914. they will talk about 1914 less and possibly drop it or change it when people.

stop paying much attention to it.

10p

I'd bet conventions are on that list of future changes. They must be very costly - they never seem to make budget at my ones, and ~~the local branch foots the bill~~ (edit - temporarily, then they get all the local congs to pass special resolutions to make up the shortfall). Plus, all those apostates that turn up!

I'd wager that within 10 years, conventions are no more - maybe they will substitute with another assembly, or just make the one-dayer a two-dayer and then they will end up with 2x 2 day assemblies per year and no conventions.

AFter all, its only those who are in their 60's and over who know anybody else in the district to 'catch up with old friends' at a convention. Once they're all feeble and struggling to even make it to the convention, there will be no point.

And once again, think of the savings. Plus its just a natural extension of a trend ... they've been shortening conventions constantly ... from like 6 days or something (way before my time) to 5, then 4, then 3. From food supplies to BYO and other minor 'simplifications' ... its only a matter of time.

besides, these days there seems to be more people OUTSIDE the convention during the program than in.

51

Meeting schedule rearranged...WHY?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

official speculation thread.... even if a reason is given for the meeting rearrangement when it is announced on 4/27, we all know how the society spins things (e.g., awake magazine being reduced to one issue per month to "put more emphasis on the bible" real reason.. .

so why is the society doing this?

on the surface, it seems to be a loosening of control.

10p

dont know why I'm adding my 2 cents worth - cos its only worth 1 cent, but anway:

Printing costs a lot of money, the society is currently in a huge corporate restructuring mode to reduce costs everywhere. Splitting the WT and reducing the Awakes led to much less printing. Now with the BS on the cool, it means less printing of books to study. As someone alreadty pointed out, the re-covering of old books so much (REVELATION 4 times, GT 3 times) already points to this.

I think pretty much everything the society does nowadays is for practical reasons - theology has never been their strong point, and now more than ever, they are acting like a shrewd corporation, not a religion.

Look at all the changes over the last 20 years (those are the ones I can remember, anyway) and they've all had a common theme of lower costs or dumbing down. It seems obvious to me that the newer members of the GB can't be too up on their JW theology anyway ... otherwise they would have known there was no way in heck they could actually be 'anointed'

48

Flood? World's Oldest Living Tree -- 9550 years old -- Discovered In Sweden

by skyking in

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080416104320.htm.

the world's oldest recorded tree is a 9,550 year old spruce in the dalarna province of sweden.

the spruce tree has shown to be a tenacious survivor that has endured by growing between erect trees and smaller bushes in pace with the dramatic climate changes over time.

10p

then maybe the earth is not very old.

Dont see how 14C has anything to do with the age of the earth. Life ... sure.

Secondly, Carbon dating is calibrated to tree rings, ice cores, sediment cores, corals etc. So fluctuations in the 14C ratio in the atmosphere, caused by solar activity or other changes in the cosmic ray radiation have been accounted for for the last 26 000 years. Over the last 10 000 years, at the worst points, accuracy is within 350 years.

I once gave a talk about how rubbish carbon dating was ... of course, I did my research through the WT publications, not from those who actually invented and use carbon dating. Seems the scientists realised this problem too, and spent the last 60 years calibrating for it.

Either way, a tree dated 9000 odd years old can reasonably be accepted as being 9000 years old, plus or minus 300 or 400 years.

I don't fully understand what is meant about the growth of the tree in the original post - it could be possible, if I understand correctly, that the tree did 'die' in the flood, but regrew after it, and its oldest portion that is dated as 9000 odd years old is the bit that, badly battered, survived the flood and was able to spawn a new growth afterwards?

So either way, its all very interesting, but I don't see how this tree has any effect on the flood myth.

41

Is Satan actually the good guy, and Jehovah the evil usurper?

by 10p in

a few years ago i read genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that satan was actually telling the truth, and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves.

and god's reign over humans hasn't been all that pretty, in fact, its been downright awful.. 'course, i'm atheist now, so i wouldn't believe it even that way around - not literally anyway.

but i wondered if the writer/editors of genesis may have actually had this thought.. anyone know of any sources that explore this idea in depth?.

10p

I think you and Eve have something in common here ;-)

yeah, exactly. Maybe she was right. Maybe she has been disrespected for too long. Without her and Satan, maybe we would be mindless automatons, just like the other animals - following a program of instinct.

maybe.

see - it doesn't hurt to think. just because you thought something, whether it is right or wrong, doesn't make you evil. that was the kind of programming we endured as JWs. Now we are free to think, at least, I hope WE are - I know I am anyway.

41

Is Satan actually the good guy, and Jehovah the evil usurper?

by 10p in

a few years ago i read genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that satan was actually telling the truth, and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves.

and god's reign over humans hasn't been all that pretty, in fact, its been downright awful.. 'course, i'm atheist now, so i wouldn't believe it even that way around - not literally anyway.

but i wondered if the writer/editors of genesis may have actually had this thought.. anyone know of any sources that explore this idea in depth?.

10p

This is no longer a JW forum. Its a hate God and Jesus forum.

Well, we probably are a bit off topic.

But its a logical question - very similar in fact to what the Jews in Jesus day had to face. Their current religious idealogy told them Jesus was sent by the Devil. They had to think for themselves and ask a similar question : is the Jewish system actually run by Satan, and this son-of-the-devil-Jesus actually God/the son of God?

Besides, I find this forum sometimes still somewhat closed-minded when it comes to topics about Jesus and the bible - probably because most are from USA. There are a number of people who often makes posts showing an unequivocal faith in Jesus, which is fine in itself, but then take it further and look down upon those that don't. If being an ex-JW should teach us anything, its that our faith should not be too strong, because we were wrong once, we could be wrong again.

What about all those in Hindu/Muslim/Buddist/other countries who've left the JW's to become a non-Jesus based follower? IS this forum only for ex-JWs who agree to respect Jesus but are free to question Mohammed?

41

Is Satan actually the good guy, and Jehovah the evil usurper?

by 10p in

a few years ago i read genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that satan was actually telling the truth, and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves.

and god's reign over humans hasn't been all that pretty, in fact, its been downright awful.. 'course, i'm atheist now, so i wouldn't believe it even that way around - not literally anyway.

but i wondered if the writer/editors of genesis may have actually had this thought.. anyone know of any sources that explore this idea in depth?.

10p

AL PACINO would tell you yes

stillajwexelder, is that from a movie?

41

Is Satan actually the good guy, and Jehovah the evil usurper?

by 10p in

a few years ago i read genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that satan was actually telling the truth, and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves.

and god's reign over humans hasn't been all that pretty, in fact, its been downright awful.. 'course, i'm atheist now, so i wouldn't believe it even that way around - not literally anyway.

but i wondered if the writer/editors of genesis may have actually had this thought.. anyone know of any sources that explore this idea in depth?.

10p

A few years ago I read Genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that Satan was actually telling the truth, and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves. And god's reign over humans hasn't been all that pretty, in fact, its been downright awful.

'course, I'm atheist now, so I wouldn't believe it even that way around - not literally anyway. But I wondered if the writer/editors of Genesis may have actually had this thought.

Anyone know of any sources that explore this idea in depth?

24

Did you ever see acts of randomness in the congregation?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

bit of a weird title i know, but it's the best i could come up with.. acts of randomness - a speaker refusing to give a talk, a party-pooper elder going to a party, a long time servant of jah criticising the cong during wt comments.. people you thought you knew doing some completely weird or out of character.. an act of randomness could appear at the end of a talk on "widening out" when a certain someone who doesn't like you decides to say hello..

10p

I had a brother-in-law, lets call him Alan (he had a similar sounding name ... you will see why it is important in a second)

He was closing the service meeting with prayer, and his last words were "In Jesus name, Alan."

I always thought he was egotistical. That's about as random as it got for me, other than the usual stuff old geezers would pull off (standing up to sing the song in the middle of the meeting etc).

24

Did you ever see acts of randomness in the congregation?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

bit of a weird title i know, but it's the best i could come up with.. acts of randomness - a speaker refusing to give a talk, a party-pooper elder going to a party, a long time servant of jah criticising the cong during wt comments.. people you thought you knew doing some completely weird or out of character.. an act of randomness could appear at the end of a talk on "widening out" when a certain someone who doesn't like you decides to say hello..

10p

One time a natural gas truck pulled up to our house and filled our tank. Someone in the congregation had annonymously paid for it.

I think its good to reflect from time to time that most JWs are really good hearted people, skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd by a heartless Guberning Body.

My mom once picked up a sister in our cong who's husband had been out of work for a few weeks (there was no social welfare system at all in South Africa at the time), took her to the grocery store and told her to buy her months groceries (dunno how others do it, but in SA we used to do a months shopping at once. Here in NZ, we do it weekly.) My mom did her groceries too, and then paid for both trolley's full.

I remember that occasion like it was yesterday, because it was so unusual a thing for witnesses to do. I was really proud of my parents - and somewhat confused (I must've been about 12) as to howcome they were almost going against the organisation by doing it. I can't quite describe the feeling ... but there was an atmosphere of defiance in the air, like we were going to help our brothers despite the society. weird.

10

Tough Questions for Jehovah's Witness...

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks!

wondering if everyone here is willing to weigh in on a thought i had.

so i've been on youtube alot lately and came across this profile:.

10p

When I was a Jehovah's Witness it was always proving things through the bible that they were the true religion, and proving by acts that they were the true religion, it was always through proof. They attempt to combat everything with "logic" and "accurate knowlege",

You know, you've just hit the nail on the head for me. That's why I'm an apostate. Because I was brought up, as a witness, to use logic and reason to 'prove' my beliefs. But I just kept going ... the invisible walls that the organisation tried to build in my mind to keep me from going 'too far' just didn't hold up against the momementum of 'reason and logic' that they had energised me with.

I like the idea of Youtube, cos witnesses won't go to an apostate website, but they will go to Youtube.

Also, I wouldn't use the word 'tough' in the title - that is already ringing of apostate in the ears of JWs. Call it something like 'Serious questions for Jehovah's Witnesses' or 'Honest questions for Jehovah's Witnesses' ... I dunno exactly, but 'Tough questions for JWs' would have put me off when I was one.

And, I can tell already that you are going to keep the tone neutral, and that is good, because it is critical. Even the slightest inflection that hints of apostate will get the computer shut down so fast, it won't even have time to 'saving your settings.'