logic&reason

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Posts by logic&reason

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  71

  Criticism worthy of your time

  by johnnyc in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  as i read posts throughout this site, i became amazed at some of the criticism people have actually spent time creating, reading (as i did), and responding to.

  dont get me wrong, some of what i read are good issues that seem worthy (to me) of discussion, but to be honest, i find that 90% of the posts are based on ridiculous petty topics that are obviously tied to a sense of deep hatred of the wtbts.

  i can appreciate that some of the people who leave such post, and have this hatred, are taking their time to discuss such things as part of a therapeutic process to combat the fact they spent a large portion of their life dedicated to an organization they feel abandoned them at some point.

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  logic&reason

  Nobody on this forum is going house to house trying to get others to read it...

  It's here for those of us who want it.
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  67

  Athiests please answer these questions

  by Mrs Smith in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm not trying to pick a fight i was just sitting at my desk pondering on some threads on jwd and i would very much like this question answered.. why is it that athiest often (not always) direct their argument for athiesism towards christians?

  why not direct your argument towards buddists or muslims or even new-agers?

  i mean they also believe in a higher power so why is it that only christains seem to get knocked?

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  logic&reason

  Reality is tough. Life is hard. I understand why 90% of people need to create some form of hope that things in their life will get better magically or that their next life will be better.

  Good point... life can brutal.

  Fantasy helps some deal with it. At some point fantasy becomes reality.

  Maybe someday in the distant future, Archaeologists will dig up Superman comics and maybe find a film reel or two and argue that he was a god who protected humans from danger...
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  47

  praying before a meal

  by megaflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have stopped.

  it brings up too many memorys of having some elder pray for the cong before we partook of any food.

  it just seemd like a big production, all would gather around and bow heads in silence while some senior male gave thanks- no more- no thanks

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  logic&reason

  If it's "Lord" or "God", who who does that represent?

  Jehovah? - That's only a rough english translation of the divine name of the Old Testament

  YHWH? - Do you guess about the vowel sounds and maybe say "Yaweh"?

  Jesus? - Who was he praying to in the New Testament?

  Are you just praying to a nameless supreme being?

  What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
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  14

  new PDF of 'pay attention to...'

  by M8R-m6ljj01 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  small file size, proper text formatting, inter-linked table of contents, proper page numbers and numbering system

  http://ia341021.us.archive.org/3/items/ks91-e/pdf.pdf

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  logic&reason

  Blondie, just clicking on the link didn't work for me either. I had to back up into it's parent directory and retieve it directly.
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  14

  new PDF of 'pay attention to...'

  by M8R-m6ljj01 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  small file size, proper text formatting, inter-linked table of contents, proper page numbers and numbering system

  http://ia341021.us.archive.org/3/items/ks91-e/pdf.pdf

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  logic&reason

  Disregard that... I have it now.

  It looks good. Thanks!
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  14

  new PDF of 'pay attention to...'

  by M8R-m6ljj01 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  small file size, proper text formatting, inter-linked table of contents, proper page numbers and numbering system

  http://ia341021.us.archive.org/3/items/ks91-e/pdf.pdf

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  logic&reason

  The link isn't working for me...
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  34

  Most LUDICROUS thing you've ever heard at the KINGDOM HALL

  by berylblue in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i certainly have heard a lot of idiotic stuff during my tenure as a witness - but this one is priceless:.

  a neophyte was complaining about the heat, humidity, physical effort, etc., involved in attending the district convention at veteran's stadium in philadelphia - and she was right.

  it was miserable.

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  logic&reason

  And now we feel like molested bees. (to borrow two words from the JW songbook)

  That is funny. I think that song also has a line that says something like "we have to beat them off" ... wow! that is good comedy.

  Someone recently called to tell me about a public talk they heard on the subject of the bible's accuracy. During the talk the speaker started paroting lines from the Creation book, but he got mixed up.

  He said that when he was in school, "they used to teach that the earth was flat and that it was sittin' on the back of a turtle. But that's man's wisdom..."

  He also said that he was glad that Jehovah had given him a "spiritual education, because now he knows that the earth is a sphere."

  This guy was giving a PUBLICTALK! I guess we could give him the benefit of the doubt... perhaps he went to school in ancient India.

  Where do they get these clowns?
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  47

  praying before a meal

  by megaflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have stopped.

  it brings up too many memorys of having some elder pray for the cong before we partook of any food.

  it just seemd like a big production, all would gather around and bow heads in silence while some senior male gave thanks- no more- no thanks

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  logic&reason

  Karma?
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  47

  praying before a meal

  by megaflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have stopped.

  it brings up too many memorys of having some elder pray for the cong before we partook of any food.

  it just seemd like a big production, all would gather around and bow heads in silence while some senior male gave thanks- no more- no thanks

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  logic&reason

  I sort of agree, but who should the appreciation be directed to?

  Is it appreciation in the sense of being aware that you have food to eat whereas others may not? If that is the case, do we really need to vocalize the appreciation?

  On the other hand, if there is a specific entity (god) out there that can read our minds... discern our emotions and motivations, doesn't he automatically know whether we are grateful or not?

  Also, what about people who do not have enough? Should they feel resentful and lodge a complaint with god whenever they get really hungry?
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  11

  We've had an influx lately (newbies)

  by dinah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first off, i don't mean "newbie" in a mean way.. do you guys think it might be helpful if we have a "getting to know" you thread started?

  let new ones, and long-tme lurkers feel welcome and share stories.. i've been fascinated by what i've read in the last couple of weeks, and frankly, usually too emotional to reply.

  it seems the same old story replays.. .

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  logic&reason

  10p... It is amazing to me that we live half a world away, yet have such similar thoughts. Honestly, it is amazing how many posts I have read in the last few days, from so many different individuals, that mirror my thoughts.

  I too am in my 30's, and have been in the truth all my life. My father has been an elder for as long as I can remember ( I believe since before I was born) and honestly, he is a good guy. He is sincere, he cares about people, but he is very much a "company man". My parents were very careful to shelter me when I was growing up, but they didn't shelter me from the damage that goes with being a JW child. I always felt ridiculous when I was a kid because I was different at school. I never fit in because I couldn't fit in. JWs by definition cannot be normal. I couldn't go to parties, no holidays, no school dances in high school, no little-league, no high school football. (Funny thing is, I hear more and more lately about kids who do all of those things, and depending on who you are, nothing is said about it.) Anyway, I always excelled in school, and got pressure from several teachers about college. My dad is a college graduate ( from before he was a witness) so he urged me to go to a local college, and I did... temporarily. Some of my witness "friends" that were my age, and a couple of younger servants hounded me to pioneer like them, so I dropped out of college in my second year. That was an obvious mistake. I tried "regular auxilliary pioneering", and it just wasn't for me. It was a big waste of time. Most pioneers just waste time and accomplish very little... It seemed like it was more for show than anything else. So I started working full time.

  There were other elders and people in our hall that would spy on me, and other young guys, then try to get us in trouble. Fucking assholes. Oddly enough, I never really did anything wrong. I was squeaky clean when I was a kid. I actually had one elder who was so desperate to get me in trouble that he made an issue when I left my car parked too long in the car port at the hall. He said it showed a lack of love for others in the hall. What a joke.

  You know what? I still am squeaky clean.

  On to adult life... I moved to a nearby city, and married a girl that that I had been friends with forever. We struggled to do the right thing as a young married couple. Tried to stay regular at meetings, regular in service. I volunteered for last minute substitute talks, showed up for all the hall clean-up days, volunteered to pick up older sisters for meetings. It was never enough. We would get shepherding calls, and the elders would say I needed to reach out more. I would ask, "What else can I do?" but they never had a real answer.

  We would get frustrated by all of the cliques in the hall. It is supposed to be such a loving environment, but it isn't. People quite often do the wrong thing, and if they know the right elder, or have a big enough family, they get by with it.

  On several occasions, I was betrayed by elders that I had confided in. They would tell me things going on... details about elder meetings, details about local politics, details about people's private problems. Then when I would tell them things that bothered me about the hall, and they would agree and tell me to speak up. When I did speak up, they hung me out to dry. No loyalty, just politics. I am ranting now... and I could go on for hours. These were the things that added up and made me start doubting that the "Holy Spirit" actually had anything to do with the organization.

  It wasn't until recently (within the last year) that I came across a reference to 587 in a history book, and for some reason, I started doing massive amounts of research about the truth and the validity of JW doctrine. I have always been an avid reader, and I love history and science, but I also always maintained a solid mental block against anything that went contrary to JW teachings. In an instant, that mental block was gone. I started questioning everything, and I haven't been the same since. I actually have an inner peace that I never thought was possible. I don't feel guilty or inadequate anymore. It's great. The thing is, I still go to the meetings like nothing is wrong. My entire family is in. My wife and kids ( who I couldn't live without) my parents, siblings, extended family, everyone. You could say that I am mentally free of the WTS, but not physically.

  This board has been very therapeutic, seeing that there are so many other people like me. Recently, I found out that a friend in my hall is in the exact situation. (what are the odds?) He is the reason I came to this forum to post. I had read it a few times in the last several months, but didn't have the courage to post until he urged me to do so. We haven't had a chance to talk very much because neither of us want to blow our cover, but it is nice to have the new found camaraderie.

  That's my story. Or, at least, it's the 10,000 foot view of my story. Sorry if I bored anyone.