DNCall

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Posts by DNCall

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  48

  2013 Watchtower, July 15 - CHARTS for discussion

  by bats in the belfry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  DNCall

  jgnat: According to the WTS there is a separation between Jesus enthronement in 1914 and his "standing up" to judge (Dan. 12). I believe it was in the 1990s that it was "discerned" that he will stand up to judge (i.e., separate the sheep from the goats) during the Great Tribulation.

  Starting with his enthronement in 1914, Jesus began cleansing the heavens, culminating in his casting out Satan to the vicinity of the earth by 1918.

  Jesus will appear like a flash of lightening at Armageddon, which is projected to occur sometime after the Great Tribulation.

  I hope that helps. (It's a strange occupation: trying to make sense out of an erroneous interpretation of a confounding book.)
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  48

  2013 Watchtower, July 15 - CHARTS for discussion

  by bats in the belfry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  DNCall

  I believe this is the first time the WTS has abandoned the idea that there will be some of the remnant left on earth to lead the Great Crowd into the New World, much like Joshua led the Israelites into the Promised Land. This new timeline requires all of the anointed to be in heaven before Armageddon begins. Some on the board have already described this as the rapture.

  I wonder if the WTS will abandon its tortured logic regarding the verses in 1 Thessalonians 4 that contrast those having been asleep in death with those who survive to Christ's presence and will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye." If memory serves, the interpretation was that contextually, Paul was talking about death and so a person's being changed would have to be preceded by his/her death.

  The web becomes more and more tangled.
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  535

  AAWA is here!! (The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists)

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcic4g5tulw.

  http://www.jwactivists.org.

  facebook the association of anti-watchtower activists.

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  DNCall

  I for one applaud the name. It is straightforward and there is no mistaking what the association is about.
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  85

  WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

  by mind blown in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

  it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

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  DNCall

  We live in a 24/7 news world where so much of the time is filled with speculation. I can't pretend to be unaffected, so here is my speculation:

  Should the WTS open the door, just a crack, for the uniquiness of their activities to be brought into play, the argument that they cannot be held liable for the actions of one member toward the other might not stand. The amount of time that adult members and child members spend with each other each week, week in and week out, is somewhat unique. Not all that time can be supervised, but there are policies in place to assume supervisorial responsibility (i.e., the elders will "keep an eye" on a known child abuser). The public ministry is less supervised, where you have a known pedophile interacting with households that include children. This narrows the field of liability considerably as respects the WTS.

  I'm not sure the WTS wants to open that door.
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  25

  Appealing a disfellowshipping - any experience

  by dozy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anyone had any experience of a successful appeal against a disfellowship?

  a friend of mine feels he has been dfd unjustifiably & is considering an appeal.

  he probably has something of a case - the jc was a total shambles - but i'm very dubious that he has any likelihood of success.. my only experience of a successful appeal is when elders in a neighbouring congregation were appointed by the co & overturned a df in our congregation a few years ago.

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  DNCall

  Things might have changed since I used to sit on appeal committees, but at that time the standard was repentance or lack thereof. In the majority of cases I was involved in, we overturned the decision of the original committee and the original committee accepted our decision. We could see repentance, whereas they didn't.

  I realize this goes contrary to mamochan13's unfortunate experience, but if his/her appeal committee's report had included, "The appeal committee . . . believed I was repentant, but that since the elders had followed the correct process, my dfing would be upheld," I believe the Service Department would have intervened. They do intervene and make the final decision if the appeal committee and the original committe cannot agree on a decision, or they see some other flaw in the process.
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  13

  Identity Crisis: Who Am I?

  by Emery in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after learning ttatt, i have completely abandoned christian fundamentalism.

  thus, dropping many superstitions, prejudices, and biases associated with legalistic interpretations of the bible.

  although i am agnostic, i still adhere to many christian principles, not because i think they are divine truths, but because i've benefited from the wisdom.. since i no longer believe in the inspiration of the bible, i repeatedly find myself falling into questions of conscience, ones which i've never faced before... .

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  DNCall

  I think you touched on the heart of the matter in your post. Fear, the Bible, or some higher authority, can induce you to be moral, sensible, honest, health-conscious, etc. Or--and this is whether you believe in God or not--you can manifest these qualities because you appreciate their intrinsic value. In such a case you identify yourself as one who wants to improve himself/herself and be of greater value to others. It's not a bad way to live either.
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  85

  WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

  by mind blown in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

  it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

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  DNCall

  I can only comment on California, but appellate courts do hear oral argument. Each side presents its argument and the panel of three judges can ask questions of the lawyers who present the arguments. Usually these hearings do not last too long. Often they are less than 30 minutes in length.
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  85

  WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

  by mind blown in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

  it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

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  DNCall

  Gingerbread: In addition to Mr. Schnack who represented them in the original action, the WTS hired Boudreau and Williams (www.bwlawllp.com). Jon Williams specializes in appellate work. My guess is that he is doing the heavy lifting in the appeal.
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  85

  WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

  by mind blown in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

  it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

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  DNCall

  MB: The WTS hired a firm that specializes in appellate work, so this isn't their first rodeo. I am surprised that they exceeded the allowable word count. I wouldn't conclude that they are taking advantage billing-wise. Appeals are expensive because they involve a lot of research, paperwork and expertise. Oftentimes deadlines are continued simply due to the attorney's case load.
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  85

  WTS action on Conti's case 3/27/2013

  by mind blown in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  as most suspected, the wts filed their brief, at least it looks that way..... http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=1&doc_id=2025979&doc_no=a136641.

  it also notes aob in excess of word count limit.. wonder if they did that to buy more time?.

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  3. 
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  DNCall

  That's about right Hillary. Whereas the CA Supreme Court would likely review the case, it's less likely that the U.S. Supreme Court would review this particular case. This is because it may not find a constitutional issue within the case. This is a much different kind of case than those involving constitutional rights of free speech and freedom of religion that were at issue in the WTS cases back in the 30s and 40s.