Posts by easyreader1970

22

Is sin an act or a state of being?

by easyreader1970 in

i can't seem to pin down the jw stance on it.. adam was perfect until he went against jehovah.

was that the sinful act?.

then jehovah cursed adam and his offspring with mortality and thus everyone is born into sin.. so, is sin what you do or is sin what you are?.

easyreader1970

Having said that, since I left JW's and (for labelling purposes) am agnostic, I have come to the conclusion that sin is a very powerful control mechanism used by organized religion. I do not believe in sin, as the premise involves believing that one's actions offend a heretofore invisible and unproveable deity.
Those are my thoughts, and I don't mind discussing them further. However, if this is a theist only thread, I will respect that. Thanks!

No, this is more of my attempt to understand religious logic, if there is any. It doesn't have to be limited to JW beliefs per se; that is just the one I am intimately familiar with. I am assuming most Christian religions follow the same line of thinking.

It's tough for me to get my head around from a logical religious perspective. We are made this way as a punishment for a crime someone else committed and we are punished for failing to resist thoughts or actions that have been put there by God. And we are made to feel guilty for having these sinful desires.

22

Is sin an act or a state of being?

by easyreader1970 in

i can't seem to pin down the jw stance on it.. adam was perfect until he went against jehovah.

was that the sinful act?.

then jehovah cursed adam and his offspring with mortality and thus everyone is born into sin.. so, is sin what you do or is sin what you are?.

easyreader1970

Of course, that brings up the next question.

We are sin because God made us sinful by nature as punishment for one man's sinful act. Then he sends his son to redeem us for something that he inflicted upon us in the first place. That seems like alot of needless deaths.

22

Is sin an act or a state of being?

by easyreader1970 in

i can't seem to pin down the jw stance on it.. adam was perfect until he went against jehovah.

was that the sinful act?.

then jehovah cursed adam and his offspring with mortality and thus everyone is born into sin.. so, is sin what you do or is sin what you are?.

easyreader1970

I can't seem to pin down the JW stance on it.

Adam was perfect until he went against Jehovah. Was that the sinful act?

Then Jehovah cursed Adam and his offspring with mortality and thus everyone is born into sin.

So, is sin what you do or is sin what you are?

20

How do you fight a monster?

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

the wbts frightens me.

it is as though they have no weaknesses.

one might say that this is assurance that it is the true organization of god.

easyreader1970

The WBTS frightens me. It is as though they have no weaknesses. One might say that this is assurance that it is the true Organization of God. I don't think that it is, and yet I can see no way it can be brought down. It's armor never even gets scratched.

I think the problem is that the people that are inside the beast are completely oblivious and the people outside just don't care enough about it because they aren't threatened in any way by it. They just see it as a fairly large organization full of a bunch of harmless whack jobs. I'm sure you could get Stone Phillips or Katie Kouric or someone investigating it if there was cause. But there isn't.

And so the WBTS machine continues to roll on, consuming souls for fuel and leaving empty husks in its wake.

Is it possible to strike at the heart of the beast instead of trying to pull random people out here and there? Not that saving individuals isn't important, but is the beast so powerful that it cannot be taken head on? Does it have no gap in its scales?

It would be great if it were discovered that a large portion of the governing body were involved in something scandalous, like ordering in male prostitutes or something. But that's a long shot. It would be even better if there was a secretly recorded session where the body laughed out loud at all of the "stupid rank and file" and how their families were living high on the hog while poor rank and file publishers squeezed out sixty hours a month in field service and donated their properties.

But those things aren't likely.

16

Handshakes

by asilentone in

have you ever squeeze some brother so hard because you do not like him?.

easyreader1970

Most of the brothers in my Kingdom Hall have some really, really weak handshakes. I don't know what that is indicative of, but I find it disturbing.

52

Snapped. It just occurred to me that I REALLY hate my life. Mostly all of it.

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

here lately, i have just been wishing that i could just fast-forward through my remaining years on earth and just die to get this nonsense all over with.. i have only myself to blame.

if i had gone through with my attempt to leave this hokey religion about sixteen years ago when i attempted to--before i got married and had kids--then maybe i wouldn't be teetering on the very slippery edge of sanity.

instead i punked out, buckled under the threats of shunning and guilt of abandoning family members, and so here i am--looking into the mirror every morning wondering when the nightmare is going to end.

easyreader1970

Thanks, passwordprotected.

We've talked about the BSG situation, even the fact that they have flipped flopped on their reasoning for it. First it was high gas prices, taking its toll on people, blah blah. Here lately the reason has become "Jehovah knows that the family study was the part that suffered most so that is why we have this new arrangement". That second reason wasn't even mentioned in the initial letter last spring.

However, I do like the idea of a family Bible reading. Any time anyone reads the Bible without WT literature and without taking things way out of context, they come to the realization of alot of things.

I'm still somewhat doubtful where my wife is concerned, but it is worth a shot.

er

I should add as a PS, usually when something happens that is not logical, it makes her act with more of a Witness frenzy, not the other way around. For instance, when she was first upset about the BSG's demise, this caused her to think "All those people who did not get close to other people when the arrangement existed might be in trouble! We should be doing more! The end is nigh!" That sort of thing. Even now, with the diving economy: "See! Jehovah told us to simplify! He was right!" I can't even try to insert logic in there anywhere about how the previous economy was not sustainable.

She now thinks that Obama, because everyone just loves him, is going to be the one who tries to rain down terror on Jehovah's people. I told her that the man will only be there for 4-8 years and he will be gone. Isn't that a leap?

63

WT 15th April apostates / new light on miscarriages

by dozy in

study articles have strong counsel against apostates - modern day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the devil.

their mind may be poisoned by a critical attitude towards individuals in the congregations , christian elders or the governing body.

some apostates oppose the use of the divine name , jehovah.

easyreader1970

Honestly, I don't understand the logic. A baby dies before it consciously existed and Jehovah will probably resurrect it? But a five year old who is the child of a person who refuses to serve Jehovah will be killed?

This is actually more of a biblical problem than a WBTS problem, though. The Old Testament (my wife hates when I call it that because the preferred nomenclature, as given by the Society, is Hebrew Scriptures) does paint Yahweh out to be a bit of a crazed monster.

20

Neckties, Armageddon & 'The New World'

by Jim_TX in

i've been doing a bit of thinking... (probably a dangerous thing, i know).

i have been 'out' for a very long time - and so have not looked at any wtbts books or magazines in a very long time.. recently, i went to a group on facebook - where there were posted a few drawings that have appeared in wt publications through the years.

i recognize one or two (one purple one from the 'paradise' book).. the one thing that stands out to me - now - is that the men, after the big 'a' are nicely dressed... slacks, shirt, pull-over perhaps... but no neckties.. so.

easyreader1970

The necktie thing doesn't appear to be universal. I have seen photos from assemblies or convention in foreign lands where neither the Witnesses attending nor the brothers giving the talks have ties or even jackets for that matter. Apparently this falls under staying within the acceptable dress guidlines of your location. The WT uses this to give local elders absolute authority when it comes to determining what people shoud wear. I have been in congregations where the brothers would not let you give talks if:

1. Your jacket and pants were not part of the same suit. No blue jacket and brown pants.

2. Your shirt was not white. Yellow shirt? No theocratic ministry school talks for you.

3. Women with sleeveless dresses or tops? They can't kick you out, but they can make sure you don't answer any questions in the Watchtower Study on Sunday.

4. A little sign of 5-o'clock shadow? Please shave that before you report back to carry the microphone. Can't shave too close because it irritates your skin? I'm sorry to hear that. We can let you answer questions in the book studies but that's about it.

Now they want people to wear their suits and ties all day long during conventions, even after the day is over. So, let me get this straight. I've had on this uncomfortable suit and tie since 6:30AM (because I had to be waiting at the door at 7AM just to have a chance at a seat for my family because you try to fit 8,000 people in a facility that holds 7,000). I wore it through all of today's session and now I want to go to the mall with my family but I can't go put on shorts and a t-shirt? And if I do then I am disrespecting Jehovah? What the hell?

52

Snapped. It just occurred to me that I REALLY hate my life. Mostly all of it.

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

here lately, i have just been wishing that i could just fast-forward through my remaining years on earth and just die to get this nonsense all over with.. i have only myself to blame.

if i had gone through with my attempt to leave this hokey religion about sixteen years ago when i attempted to--before i got married and had kids--then maybe i wouldn't be teetering on the very slippery edge of sanity.

instead i punked out, buckled under the threats of shunning and guilt of abandoning family members, and so here i am--looking into the mirror every morning wondering when the nightmare is going to end.

easyreader1970

Thanks for all of the encouraging comments.

@slimboyfat: I was always the Witness who didn't necessarily believe everything that came from the Watchtower, but I did feel that they were somehow "better" than most of the organized religions. It wasn't until later that I realized that the very thing that made them better (strict control) was the very thing that was causing me to have the problems I did. You were supposed to accept every thing they said, even if you had a problem with it. It didn't matter. Something doesn't make any sense? Suck it up and deal with it.

But I really didn't start investigating the religion on my own until I was in a congregation with some elders that were nothing close to the JW version of "Christian" if you ever saw them outside of the Kingdom Hall. Weren't these people supposed to be "spirit anointed?" Why would the spirit have anointed any of these people? I mean we're talking lying, cheating, stealing, swearing, the whole nine yards. Is Jehovah's spirit stupid?

So it wasn't the Watchtower that led me down this dark path but, ironically, rogue agents of it.

Then I started reading and reading and reading. I've been doing that for the past few years. Just last year I secretly bought the CoC book and it really blew my mind.

52

Snapped. It just occurred to me that I REALLY hate my life. Mostly all of it.

by easyreader1970 in

jw
friends

here lately, i have just been wishing that i could just fast-forward through my remaining years on earth and just die to get this nonsense all over with.. i have only myself to blame.

if i had gone through with my attempt to leave this hokey religion about sixteen years ago when i attempted to--before i got married and had kids--then maybe i wouldn't be teetering on the very slippery edge of sanity.

instead i punked out, buckled under the threats of shunning and guilt of abandoning family members, and so here i am--looking into the mirror every morning wondering when the nightmare is going to end.

easyreader1970

Go very slowly. Then DROP IT. It doesn't matter if she doesn't answer your question. At the least, you'll be planting seeds of doubt in her mind about the Organization.

lavendar, I appreciate your suggestions. Unfortunately, I've tried and failed with those. She is the living example of a perfect Witness. She has been trained to immediately block and shut down anything you offer even a slightly different point of view or way of thinking. It's like Beta Male said. She can't/won't think. The switch that would allow her to have independent thought has been removed or destroyed by the WBTS.