I think this will eventually be the undoing, they are already tightening the purse strings (see my earlier post about the magazine change). This will only speed things up:
1. Those without further education tend to earn less than those with degrees and college education, so less money going in the box, especially as the economy is going through a squeeze. Most people without extra skills are only paid the minimum wage in the UK (think it's about £6 p/h, that's £240 for a 40 hour week and probably about £200 after taxes). £800 a month pay out your mortgage or rent, council tax, fuel bills and petrol and food and their is not going to be much left for the box.
2. Those without further education tend to be employed in retail and this is now meaning more and more evening and weekend work-this will mean more meetings missed and more loss of control. Nearly most of those that window cleaned in the UK have jacked it in and gone for regular employment.
3. Any society or group of people needs a balanced mix of people skills, imagine if their were no street cleaners or bin men or shelf stacker's, if everyone was a doctor or lawyer. Now imagine the reverse...
4. Most democratic governments will become more anti-witness if they learn that they are actively discouraging further education.
5. Highly likely to cause dissension amongst the body of elders. People have different abilities, some people are academically inclined while others are practical. I consider myself an academic and I'm grateful for those with practical skills such as mechanics, gardeners, builders etc.
6. If little Zedekiah decides to go for a job at his local factory instead of going to college so his daddy can stay in the old boys club will still be associating with worldly people who may lead him astray.
7. Any elder worth his salt will but his kids life and future over his elder duties and some may consider it an ideal opportunity to offload their eldership without looking to bad, it wouldn't create too much of a fuss if an elder came off due to his kid going to college.
I have a feeling that next they will encourage home schooling for all...
DisconnectingDrone
JoinedPosts by DisconnectingDrone
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138
Why I will NEVER be an elder again
by stillajwexelder inso the po confirmed what many on this board already know.
at latest round of co to elders meeting, the co quoted from the society outline.
any elder or ms who encourages college for his kids or others or who allows his children to go to college will no longer qualify.. he then asked if i was going to take the cos encouragement and reach out again to be an elder and get my hours on the ministry up.. i replied "i will never be an elder again - i strongly approve of further education and college and have been through college myself.
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DisconnectingDrone
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138
Why I will NEVER be an elder again
by stillajwexelder inso the po confirmed what many on this board already know.
at latest round of co to elders meeting, the co quoted from the society outline.
any elder or ms who encourages college for his kids or others or who allows his children to go to college will no longer qualify.. he then asked if i was going to take the cos encouragement and reach out again to be an elder and get my hours on the ministry up.. i replied "i will never be an elder again - i strongly approve of further education and college and have been through college myself.
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DisconnectingDrone
I heard from 2 elders and 1 MS on separate occasions that this was delivered in the pep-talk the CO has with the elders & MS (normally Friday evening of the CO visit).
I understand it isn't an instant removal for having children at college, but rather that it is not to be promoted. So an elder can send his kids to college, but if he weaves this into his next public talk then that's a no-no.
He is also to refrain from comments such as:
"my Obadiah is doing really well at College, they think he'll be accepted for Oxford or Cambridge, etc."
"I spoke to Jethro the other day and he says college isn't as bad as it's cracked up to be."
I think the bottom line is the elder will be deleted (always makes me laugh that term!) if the CO or another back-stabbing elder hears a R&F say "my Habbakuk is off to college, as Elder DeepPoo says it's a good idea". -
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What would keep you in?
by DisconnectingDrone infor those still "in" but looking for an exit, what changes to current practices/teaching would make you decide to stay "in" ?
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DisconnectingDrone
For those still "in" but looking for an exit, what changes to current practices/teaching would make you decide to stay "in" ?
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For those raised as a JW...
by DisconnectingDrone inlike many i was about 7 or 8 when my parents were baptized.
being a child you naturally trust that your parents are doing the right thing and follow them.
i was baptized at 15-how often i wish i could turn back the clock!
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DisconnectingDrone
Thanks for all your responses. There's certainly a lot to think about and I think the key is to try and gradually fade.
The only thing that runs through my mind is, if I had children and someone knocked on my door and offered a chance for our family to live forever petting lions my alarm bells would ring. I suppose the only thing that makes sense is back then their was no internet and my parents only heard one side of the story. -
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For those raised as a JW...
by DisconnectingDrone inlike many i was about 7 or 8 when my parents were baptized.
being a child you naturally trust that your parents are doing the right thing and follow them.
i was baptized at 15-how often i wish i could turn back the clock!
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DisconnectingDrone
Like many I was about 7 or 8 when my parents were baptized. Being a child you naturally trust that your parents are doing the right thing and follow them. I was baptized at 15-how often I wish I could turn back the clock!
I would like to collect people's views to their parents. Personally, I have much love and respect for my parents and get along with them and is probably still a major reason why I am still going to meetings etc (other reason being my wife, but more on that in another topic (she has major doubts anyway)); however part of me is angry that as parents their responsibility is to protect their children from harm and joining a mind control cult harms children.
I have tried dipping my toes into the water to discuss how I feel with less controversial issues to test the water. I would not give up, I am the only 1 of 4 that ever got baptized, my siblings got out at around 16.
How does everyone else handle their relationship with their parents? -
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All the changes. Piecing it together.
by DisconnectingDrone inpart of my job involves calculating what businesses in the uk are doing and forecasting growth and reasons behind the changes.. applying my knowledge with other bits of info here is what i suspect is going on.
firstly, the magazines, we get a public and a private edition of the wt and 1 awake.
that's 53.5 million less per month to print!
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DisconnectingDrone
Part of my job involves calculating what businesses in the UK are doing and forecasting growth and reasons behind the changes.
Applying my knowledge with other bits of info here is what I suspect is going on.
Firstly, the magazines, we get a public and a private edition of the WT and 1 Awake. The main benefit here is less printing. Before the cuts:
Watchtower approx 28.5 million per issue x 2 a month = 57 million
Awake approx 34.5 million per issue x 2 a month = 69 million
Total magazines to print per month = 126 million
What we have today:
The Public Watchtower now reports a circulation of 37 million, while no figure is given in the private edition. Both magazines are described as semimonthly on page 2. So I suspect the 37 million is the combined printing total of the public and private Watchtowers, which would be about right, approx 29 million public and 8 million private.
This reduces the printing per month to:
WT (both) 37 million
Awake 35.5 million
New Total magazines to print per month = 72.5 million!
That's 53.5 million less per month to print! This has been done for keeping costs down.
On an interesting note a while back the Kingdom Ministry's were full of info regarding several new high-tech printing presses that had been purchased capable of printing thousands of magazines per minute.
I've heard people visiting Bethel complain that "the presses are never running when we visit Bethel". I've also heard a Bethel brother saying that "when they are running their printing capacity is higher than ever before, but when they are not working this brings the gain down below the average printing speed of the presses they replaced over each working week".
They have also increased the magazine lead time, previously we only had the magazines for the next 6-8 weeks, now we have them with around 8 or 9 week lead times, this is to increase the margin for printing for when they have problems with the presses. Basically, they have "not sat down and calculated the cost" and made the same mistake as a lot of businesses and government departments-brought into what is thought to be a long-term cost saving and this has actually cost them more then the salesman told them.
The Meeting changes
The meeting changes are most certainly just the first part of a change, there is a second half that has not been made public yet-most likely a change to the elder arrangement. The reduction in meetings (from 5 hours per week to 3.5 hours per week from 2009) is not for cash. An interesting note is that if a business has high staff turnover (including staff members with a long service record) then they may soften any restrictive rules or implement procedures to try to stem the flow of employee's leaving to help steady the business (such as dress down days or social events). I believe this is also what the brass at Brooklyn are doing with the meeting cutbacks. Since this is a religion this is likely to cause a split, those with busy schedules enjoying the freedom and wanting more and the older ones feeling that they have been let down and betrayed somehow.
Other changes in the wind
I honestly think they are currently planning other emergency "new light" to keep members from leaving. However this has to be carefully planned. For instance if they lift the ban on Blood, this will stop any future issues, however it will open up the floodgates for legal cases over past blood cases and also cause questions to be raised in the minds of the members. However, not doing anything will definitely bring more legal cases as and when they occur. I think they are watching the legal cases currently taking place before sending out any "new light".
What they are doing is making bigger and bigger changes, each time waiting for feedback and monitoring the effect it is having before they make another... -
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Tsunami Contributions
by DisconnectingDrone inone of the things that woke me up to the hypocrisy was when the tsunami struck in 2004. the elders used a box for a tsunami fund, we raised around 750, the elders put a vote out to use some of the congregations funds and we increased this to nearly 3 times this amount.. the congregation got a letter thanking us for the donation but requesting that for future donations we do not stipulate where the money should be channeled too (i assume the elders requested this go to those affected by the tsunami) as "they have already set aside money for this disaster relief and this makes things very difficult for them and all future relief money should goto the wwf".. at the end of the day they would not have got this money if their was no disaster-but that stank to me, i realized i was part of a greedy corporate empire that wanted money and didn't give a toss about the people affected by this tsunami.
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DisconnectingDrone
One of the things that woke me up to the hypocrisy was when the tsunami struck in 2004. The elders used a box for a tsunami fund, we raised around £750, the elders put a vote out to use some of the congregations funds and we increased this to nearly 3 times this amount.
The congregation got a letter thanking us for the donation but requesting that for future donations we do not stipulate where the money should be channeled too (I assume the elders requested this go to those affected by the tsunami) as "they have already set aside money for this disaster relief and this makes things very difficult for them and all future relief money should goto the WWF".
At the end of the day they would not have got this money if their was no disaster-but that stank to me, I realized I was part of a greedy corporate empire that wanted money and didn't give a toss about the people affected by this tsunami. -
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Let's predict what the WTS will cut next
by unbrainwashed init looks like there is a pattern of a major cutback every year or so for the past several years.
from soft cover binding, no more subscriptions, 30 min public talks, members only wt magazine, book study meeting elimination.
maybe i missed some others.
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DisconnectingDrone
Next year their will be an announcement that the society has received new light that from Jan 1st 2010 Oral Sex between married couples will no longer be a sin. This will be looked forward to by many brothers & sisters but we will be encouraged to wait till Jan 1st otherwise we will be disciplined.
The elders will visit each married couple and check that they waiting until Jan 1st 00:00 before accepting the new teaching.
This will help reduce the tensions of a lot of brothers and sisters and help with the current burdens and attract more people to join, the new study book will then be released at the DC in 2010-the JW version of the Kuma Sutra. -
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Looking for others
by DisconnectingDrone inan interesting note is you do start wondering if others at your local kh are in the know.
i suspect our book study is.
he is "ill" or on holiday during revelation studies that have wacky teachings.
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DisconnectingDrone
An interesting note is you do start wondering if others at your local KH are in the know. I suspect our book study is. He is "ill" or on holiday during Revelation studies that have wacky teachings. Once he said about the study discussing the beast that receives the death stroke "next week we'll discuss a topic that the society has flip-flopped over: the beast that receives the death stroke and see what the current teaching is". The key word flip-flopped made me very suspicious. He also is pretty cool in that if you miss a few meetings and start to tell him your excuse he just says "Look, I don't care as long as your ok in yourselves".
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Hello
by DisconnectingDrone ini have been visiting this site and others for a while (to be honest those items about how dangerous the internet is made me wonder what they were hiding).
anyway, i have been amazed at how most of the issues i have are experienced by many others too.
but for starters here's my main ones:
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DisconnectingDrone
Hi, I have been visiting this site and others for a while (to be honest those items about how dangerous the internet is made me wonder what they were hiding). Anyway, I have been amazed at how most of the issues I have are experienced by many others too. I have been impressed with the quality of the posts too. Over the next few posts I'll post some of my issues for discussion. But for starters here's my main ones: 1) How do the Governing Body receive new light? The method is never elaborated on and it is certainly not a vision, or documents appearing at Brooklyn or angelic messengers. Do they do wet/dry fur tests like the guy did in the Bible? 2) If elders are appointed by holy spirit, sure you may be told that no one is perfect, but what about the guy who was a practicing pedophile and appointed as a MS and then an elder in London Bethel that was in the news recently? Did the holy spirit miss this? Did it overlook this sin and saw the good in him? 3) Ministry. If the message is urgent, why are we using inefficient means to broadcast the news? Why do we call round at the worst possible times to catch people in. 4) Measuring spirituality in hours. Every other metric in the report is on head counts, meeting attendence, no. baptized, no publishers, no. pioneers, etc. Brother Elder does 2 hours a week each Saturday morning and talks to 2 people, Brother Scum does 1 hour every 2 weeks in the evening and speaks to 5 people each night. On the records Brother Elder looks good, but Brother Scum is doing better quality ministry. 5) If Jesus is to rule for 1000 years and this started in 1914 then he is nearly 10% through his rulership and not exactly done anything yet. 6) National Anthems. Brothers in the US are allowed to stand but not sing and put their hand in their heart. Brothers in the UK are not allowed to stand. I know a brother who got beat up at a football match for refusing to stand for the anthem-it is not worship it is respect. If a public member enters the hall we expect him to stand out of respect. 7) Silly rules that are not worth a forum topic: Clothing-brothers have to wear jackets & ties all the time, even if their is no air-con and the temperature is high. Then sisters get it bad in winter having to wear dresses and banned from trousers. 8) Customs & celebrations. Most things are rooted in Babylonish customs and are acceptable, wedding rings, time measurements, angles & baptisms. Others are not. The argument that the early christians didn't do them doesn't wash either, there's no evidence that the used wedding rings. Anyway, that's my start and will post a few other issues I think are crazy. Feel free to comment about these raised.