ScarabKing

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Posts by ScarabKing

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  50

  Is Ray Franz Great or What?

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this evening i had a nice conversation with ray and we discussed our previous conversation.

  while our previous conversation was remembered differently in certain areas we agreed that we should be peaceful with one another, i apologized for any misunderstanding and decided as a result to remove any negative comments made about him.

  i do believe our discussion was productive and will help us both to be more supportive of one another in the future.

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  ScarabKing

  hugs to everybody on JWD all the way around.

  WE ARE FAMILY!!!!!!!

  <slithering back into retirement with crack pipe and baton>

  Edited by - scarabking on 9 October 2002 23:17:36
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  18

  Most cool Jw leader ?

  by haujobbz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thinkin about all the jw leaders back to the very roots of jws starting i was trying to think who was the genuine and truthful of the lot who could it have been:.

  charles taze russell.

  rutherford.

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  ScarabKing

  Farkel is correct. Read the book "Visions of Glory" by Barbara Grizutti Harrison. A whole chapter is devoted to Maria Russell.

  Also of interest to me was the fact that Russell was purportedly a member of a certain religious group that believed Jesus was coming to 'get' them on a certain day. If Russell had been out there that night, with the others, when Jesus did not come, I would have believed he was sincere. However, in "Visions of Glory' it is said that he claims he was asleep in bed and not out with his fellow worshipers. Which means he was a con man through and through even at that early date.
• 
  109

  Dr. Bergman

  by Jerry Bergman in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i have now read the section that deals with me.

  all i can say is i am amazed!!!

  don't my critics have any concern about the facts???

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  ScarabKing

  I am a very big fan of Dr. Bergman's--have been for years.

  But I will say this. If fifty years ago someone wrote a book and said the moon was made of green cheese and the earth was flat---and that is what people believed at the time--then even today that book would have SOME educational, historical, social, anthropological, value. The material in it is not true--that is not it's value. It is of value becasue that is what was believed then, and great strides have been made--let us hope!!--and better information is available now.

  Years ago a book was published by Dr. Bergman in which there was included information that was believed to be true at the time. Well it was NOT true, not then or now. We know this. Thanks to ongoing research, much more information is available now, and this is a GOOD thing.

  So I would say to Dr. Bergman: "You do not 'need' to write a new/revised book that includes the incredible amount of updated information available today. You do not have to 'prove' anything to anybody. If you wish that book to only be useful, today, as historical or social history, that is your choice.

  But, if you wish for this book to be a useful tool in an arsenal for fighting a 'frontline' battle against cults--and saving many many lives--it will need to republished and revised and updated.

  The choice is yours, sir."
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  2

  The late great 'Brother' Bowen

  by ScarabKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the high and mighty william h. bowen and friends.

  most people in the world who would know of bill bowens (and friends) efforts on behalf of the adult survivors of childhood abuse (asca) would applaud his efforts and maybe even help to a greater or lesser degree.

  many a political representative and elected legislator have certainly voiced their agreement with the sentiments expressed by mr. bowen and his supportersas evidenced by recent passage of tougher child abuse reporting laws in some states, with plenty more in the works.

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  ScarabKing

  The High and Mighty William H. Bowen and Friends

  Most people in the world who would know of Bill Bowens (and friends) efforts on behalf of the adult survivors of childhood abuse (ASCA) would applaud his efforts and maybe even help to a greater or lesser degree. Many a political representative and elected legislator have certainly voiced their agreement with the sentiments expressed by Mr. Bowen and his supportersas evidenced by recent passage of tougher child abuse reporting laws in some states, with plenty more in the works.

  However, the recent expulsion of Mr. Bowen from his church, caught on film and posted to the internet, brings to mind another event that occurred many years ago. In the land commonly referred to as Romania, in the late 1980s, some estimated several thousands of Romanian Jehovahs Witnesses separated themselves from the Watchtower Society and in effect, if not in word and deed, expelled the Governing Body from their organization. They changed their name to (in English) THE TRUE FAITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. They preach from house to house and hold conventions. They say they have fared little better in their preaching work now than they did before the Big Split; and Watchtower itself has been reporting little or no average increase over the last five years; the year 2001 saw zero increase. Each religion either blames the other, or jointly blames the government and/or the Orthodox Church. At first blush, these two religions hardly seem as different from one another as they claim.

  Watchtower Society did NOT take the expulsion of its Governing Body from the small group of Romanian TRUE FAITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES with a mild spirit, nor tact, nor any Christian spirit. It seemed that after the Romanians had sacrificed life and limb for Watchtower Society principles, all Watchtower Society wanted now was blind obedience and forwarded checks (so the Romanians seemed to feel). The Romanians took their toys and played elsewhere and the Watchtower Society has made little, if any, mention of the scandal to the rest of their adherents in the world. If nothing else, the actions of THE TRUE FAITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES were met with derision and contempt on the part of those few Watchtower Society adherents who even knew about the group.

  The Romanian TRUE FAITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES have claimed that they welcome Watchtower Society adherents to their conventions, and it would appear that shunning, if it is still practiced, is not extended to Watchtower members. They seem to minister to Watchtower Society and former Watchtower Society adherents the same as members of the public in general.

  Watchtower Society has lost many of its members since the Romanian split (as havemany religiouns). Very likely these former members do not practice shunning and expulsion anymore.

  But did they in the late 1980s? Many of those who were formerly elders and pioneers, and who knew about the Romanians were derisive and contemptuous of them; they viewed the Romanians as apostates or even the evil slave class; the Romanians years of service and hardship were viewed with nothing less than disdain and of no consequence by those that were Witnesses THEN.

  Were the Bowens and the Pandellos, and the Andersons within that number? If they had met, on an American street, in those days, a TRUE FAITH JEHOVAH'S WITNESS would they have treated THEM like any member of the public? Or not even have spoken a greeting to them?

  The Romanians had no Internet, they had no exjw movement they had no Ray Franz, former Governing Body member to help them. They had only their hearts and their courage to stand against their former brothers and sisters in the faith AND their government AND the Orthodox Church---whatever their faults, they been there and done that with a bang, before it became fashionable.

  Maybe NOW, all the years of service the Romanians had rendered from the 1940s to the 1980s will have some meaning for those that are now former Watchtower Society members. Maybe NOW, former Watchtower Society adherents can view their Romanian counterparts with the respect and dignity to which these brave individuals are entitled, and which they have formerly been deprived of by THEN faithful Watchtower Society adherents.

  MAYBE NOT.

  http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/index.html
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  64

  Reparations & Protest

  by Larry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this weekend i'm going to dc for the reparation march.

  i know this is an highly volatile subject for some so i'm not even going to ask for opinions.

  but, for the record here's my stand - i'm for reparations based on principle.

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  ScarabKing

  http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~jdana/iphunger.html

  THE GREAT STARVATION
  AND BRITISH IMPERIALISM IN IRELAND

  by Seamus Metress
  University of Toledo

  from The Irish People
  Jan. 10, 1996

  In recent months there has been a great deal of discussion about what to call the tragedy that accompanied the failure of the potato crop in Ireland between 1845-50. Our nomenclature today can be an important part of educating the public about what really happened during those awful years. In this context let us consider the nature of what I would prefer to call the "Great Starvation".

  One hundred fifty years ago in the late summer of 1845 one of the greatest human ecological disasters in the history of the world began in Ireland. A fungus from North America established itself in Ireland and commenced to destroy the potato crop. When the fungus had run its course at least 1 1/1 million, possibly as many as 2 million, Irish had died and another 1 1/2 million had emigrated. No one can fully capture in words the magnitude or the intensity of the suffering and hardship endured by the Irish people from 1845-1850.

  The potato failure of the mid to late 1840's has been variably referred to as "The Great Hunger","The Great Famine" and "The Great Starvation." One's choice of words to describe this colossal human tragedy is often determined by political ideology or personal agenda. Irish landowners referred to the time period as that of "The Great Hunger." Most of these landowners were absentee and did not experience first hand the ravages of the potato blight. They, unlike their tenants, were not dependent on the potato for their survival. While potatoes rotted in the fields, landowners continued to eat a varied diet.

  The British call it "The Great Famine." The scarcity of food was blamed on the weather, the potato fungus and, perhaps, most of all on the Malthusian notion of overpopulation. The Irish had overbred and there wasn't enough food to feed them all given the crop failure. However, as Frank O'Connor once observed, "Famine is a useful word when you do not wish to use words like 'genocide' and 'extermination.'"

  These latter terms are philosophically embodied in "The Great Starvation," which is a more realistic way to refer to the time period when Irish peasants starved in the midst of plenty, Wheat, oats, barley, butter, eggs, beef and pork were exported from Ireland in large quantities during the so-called "famine." In fact, eight ships left Ireland daily carrying these many foodstuffs. Starvation among the peasants is blamed on a colonial system that made them dependent on the potato in the first place. Racist insensitivity toward the plight of the starving masses also played a major role in the death and large-scale emigration which marked this time. The British failed to take swift and comprehensive action in the force of Ireland's disaster.

  In 1861 in The Last Conquest of Ireland, John Mitchel wrote: "The Almighty indeed sent the potato blight but the English created the famine," Mitchell further observed that "a million and half men, women and children were carefully, prudently and peacefully slain by the English government. The died of hunger in the midst of abundance which their own hands created."

  Such sentiment expressed by an Irishman who witnessed the horrors inflicted upon his countrymen will always linger, refuting revisionist attempts to obscure reality.

  In recent years there has been an effort among Tory revisionists to soften the trauma of the period and downplay the role of the British. This is especially evident in the tendency to reduce the estimates of the number of deaths related to the starvation. Most of these apologists have suggested there were much less than a million deaths, while some estimates go as low as 250,000. Even these incorrect estimates are appalling given that they occurred only a short distance from the heart of the most powerful and wealthy empire the world has ever known. We suppose that such an approach is an attempt to lessen the blame that should be placed upon the British or insome sense to veil the magnitude of the tragedy.

  These same apologist feel that there was nothing that any government could have done to ameliorate the situation. The poor British tried, but were simply overwhelmed by the logistics of the operation. In their view the starvation was the inevitable outcome of demography and the prevalent economic theory of the day.

  It would appear that one of the major purposes of Irish revisionism is to undermine the basis of Irish nationalism and leave Ireland without heroes or historical memory. It also plays down the British responsibility for the catastrophic aspects of the Irish experience. Though they alternately whimper or crow about their quest for detached truth, Anglo-Irish revisionists attempt to present sociopolitical propaganda under the guise of scholarly writing. They choose to forget that British rule in Ireland was guided by the rope and the bayonet.

  British apologists would do well to ponder the words of the great British writer William Makepiece Thackeray who characterized British colonialism in Ireland as follows: "...It is a frigthful document against ourselves...one of the most melancholy stories in the whole world of insolence, rapine, brutal, endless slaughter and persecution on the part of the English master,...There is no crime ever invented by eastern or western barbarians, no torture or Roman persecution or Spanish Inquisition, no tyranny of Nero or Alva but can be matched in the history of England in Ireland."

  It is time for us to stop using the euphemism "Irish potato famine" for two reasons. First, it is wrong because there was no shortage of food in Ireland. Secondly, it was not simply an "Irish famine" but a starvation based on systematic British exploitation of the Irish people, inaction in the face of the potato crop failure, and a vindictive, racist attitude toward the Irish.

  The events of 1845-1850 were truly a holocaust. Indeed in 1904 Michael Davitt, the founder of the Irish Land League called it a holocaust. It is not something for the Irish and Irish Americans to forget. Why is it that we are told to stop living in the past or that we have too long a memory? Would anyone ask Jews to forget the Nazi atrocities against their people? Should Native Americans forget the massacres at Sand Creek and Wounded Knee? Would we suggest that African Americans forget the horrors of the middle passage? How can we learn from the past if we are ignorant of its successes, failures, an abominations?

  In the words of the Irish patriot labor leader James Connolly, "The English administration of Ireland during the famine was a colossal crime against the human race." We should not forget our holocaust orchestrated by English imperialists and we should not let the world forget. In August 1989, during an address on Grosse Ile, Canada, Dr. Edward J. Brennan, Ireland's ambassador to Canada, noted: "The Great Famine was Ireland's holocaust (which) condemned the Irish to be the first boat people of modern Europe."

  None of us can truly understand the nature of their privations, but we all can take this opportunity to pay tribute to the memory of those who died and the courage of those who survived. May their ghosts know that we still care. Let us not dare to forget the terrible death and suffering that occurred between 1845 and 1850. In fact we should indelibly fix it in our personal and collective memory for we are our ancestors.

  Edited by - scarabking on 16 August 2002 18:13:46
• 

  Men and the Watchtower

  by ScarabKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  watchtower and men

  thanks to bill bowen and others like him, women and children are finally getting more of their fair share of attention, not just from the media and the medical field, but also from the ex jehovahs witnessesmovement and its ever-growing numbers of non-witness supporters.

  much has been said on the private and public discussion boards concerning the known damage to the more vulnerable and less-empowered contingent of this religion-based corporation; less has been said about the damage done to those that make up the leadership and power base of the watchtowerthe men.. from the time that witness men are boys, they are taught not just that women are lesser and weaker (notice that they are not weaker when men are not present, such as isolated congregations; nor are they weaker when they are the single heads of families) but that the men must exercise headship over the women.

• 

  ScarabKing

  Watchtower and Men

  Thanks to Bill Bowen and others like him, women and children are finally getting more of their fair share of attention, not just from the media and the medical field, but also from the ex Jehovahs Witnessesmovement and its ever-growing numbers of non-Witness supporters. Much has been said on the private and public discussion boards concerning the known damage to the more vulnerable and less-empowered contingent of this religion-based corporation; less has been said about the damage done to those that make up the leadership and power base of the Watchtowerthe men.

  From the time that Witness men are boys, they are taught not just that women are lesser and weaker (notice that they are NOT weaker when men are not present, such as isolated congregations; nor are they weaker when THEY are the single heads of families) but that the men must exercise headship over the women. In effect, being a male member of the Christian Congregation is definitely not a spectator sport. Overt acts are required on the part of the men, even boys, in order to maintain their status and to move upward on the spiritual ladder.

  Now, a hundred years ago, when ALL women were likely treated and thought of this way, this perhaps was not a problem. But beginning from the 1960s and continuing untill today, the growing influence and contributions of women in the workplace have resulted in an improved status and treatment in the cultural and secular settings. They have better and equal access to education, and more freedom in which to use it. By no stretch of the imagination are men and women equal in the workplace mind you---but conditions have definitely have changed for both genders.

  On the other hand, Watchtowers attitude towards women, and their expectations of males conduct and attitude toward women, have remained stagnant since at least the 1960s. Consider that a young 15-year-old baptized male teeenage boy is supposed to sit in the presence of his mother while she has a veil on her head (during a study) as a sign of respect and submission. This is after having been in school all day and having to give equal respect to his male teacher and female principal.

  Now how, in his mind, does a young boy switch gears from his Witness home to the secular world in this way, and still maintain mental balance? If he does it by saying to himself "I am a Christian, and these people in the world are not" then he has taken the first step toward religious intolerance and a me versus them stance that may become so deeply ingrained that it matters little whether he remains a Witness upon adulthood or not----this plurality of viewpoints will still be there, baggage that must be carried wherever he goes in life.

  Complicating matters further is if the women expect and look for dominance because to do otherwise would bring difficulty into their life from other Witness sources. (For example, the elders). At home, the young married Witness male is expected to exercise headship but then in the secular world he must give respect and some level of obedience to his female superiors.

  Small wonder that the stress that this duality of mind can cause, releases itself through the overuse of alcohol or even physical acting-out toward other family members. Waking up in the morning to Alice-in-Wonderland (the Watchtower ideal of family and married life) then at midday crossing over to Mad Max (The Watchtower attitdue toward the secular world) and back again to Alice-in-Wonderland---and this day in and day out---can cause ambivalence on the part of men toward women throughout the whole scope of their daily existance.

  It should come as no surpise how many Witness males prefer a meagre existance as window-washers, with its often all-male work teams, to the benefits and rewards a good secular career would have but with the price of equality toward women.

  Watchtower doesnt let men off the hook as regards their own bodies either. Men as well as women can be expelled and shunned for engaging in oral/anal sexual relations. Men as well as women can be punished intra-organizationally if they undergo surgical steriliation. Men can be punished if they do not execise headship as well as the woman who will not accept it. And men will be expelled and shunned if they do not carry out the me Tarzan you Jane concept of male and famale relations whenever the issue comes up during organizational disciplinary events (juducal committees).

  And when it comes to education, men take a big hit in the personal freedom department, for they as well as women are subjected to scrutiny if they wish to pursue higher eduction, even if they have a large family to support. And in any case, they are expected to make up the difference when the publishers do not contribute enough to the congregation cash flow to meet expenses.

  Since women cannot occupy positions of responsibility in the Witness congregation, they can be police officers and advance themselves as high up the chain of command as they wish with very little reprisal, with the added benefit of male subordinates. Baptised male publishers, on the other hand, will lose any postions of responsibility they may have attained in the congregation and most likely, will not get them back untill they relinquish their police career entirely--plus the added weight of female superiors.

  Ex-JW males hardly fare better. These antiquated attitudes toward one-half of the population by the other half (in the Witness world) cannot be rooted out with just a few visits to the mental health counselor; nor do they go away of their own accord as does the common cold. It perhaps is rather like having ingested just enough poison to be sick and uncomfortable; when the poison is discontinued the liver still show signs of damage upon inspection. Misogyny may well be a life-long condition.

  Is there hope for a male JW exiting the Watchtower, to make peace with the women of the world in which he now finds himself a part? Some have found a way and made themselves a path. Some have in fact actually taken up the cause of bettering the existance of women and children within the organization; others have crept off into corners like injured animals licking their wounds and are still searching for their way; others still go through life pretending the problem doesnt exist and never existed. In all these cases, there still is manifest the beauty of the human world.diversity.

  And in that, perhaps, as in all the worlds problems may lie the biggest solution. Change is constant.
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  4

  Women and the 'Pioneer' ('Illuminators') book

  by ScarabKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  below is the chapter entitled "the christian woman walking with god" starting from page 51 of the "shining as illuminators in the world" (1989) by the watchtower bible and tract society.

  the christian woman walking with god

  as a member of the christian congregation, she has come to understand her responsibilities before god.

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  ScarabKing

  Below is the Chapter entitled "The Christian Woman Walking With God" starting from page 51 of the "Shining as Illuminators in the World" (1989) by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

  The Christian Woman Walking With God

  OPENING DISCUSSION

  At a time of unrst and discontent among many peopie with regard to their lot in life, Jehovah's dedicated servants are blessed with the of fulfillment. They find true happiness in walking with God.

  In some lands women today have organized themselves for the purpose of fighting the discrimination and oppression to which they have been unjustly subjected by unappreciative men. But even when they have attained some measure of success, true happiness hasnot resulted. The very means used for gaining freedom from oppression have often brought even greater frustrations.

  On the other hand, the woman who is a true Christian has found that the key to happiness lies in one's walking with God. As a member of the Christian congregation, she has come to understand her responsibilities before God. With this primary relationship in clear focus, she has been able to adjust to other relationships that seem to present extreme difficulties to other women. If she is married, she can now recognize her husband in the role assigned to him by God. She can understand her relationship to other men who, along with her, are also walking with God.

  In many lands there are more women than men proclaiming the good news to others. Multitudes of women are responding to the good news. It is importantfor you to understand and fully appreciate the role of the woman in the Christian congregation. Only in that way will you be able to help women to become truly liberated today. For this reason we consider the subject "The Christian Woman Walking With God."

  QUESTION OUTLINE

  A Favored Position of Dignity and Respect

  Regarding the honorable relationship between man and woman as established in the beginning, what do you learn from Genesis 2:20-24?

  How does Ephesians 5:28-31 show that God's view of the husband and wife relationship has not changed?

  How is the woman benefited and protected as "a weaker vessel"?

  What would make the woman "a crown to her owner"? (Prov. 12:4)

  Submission to Headship not Distasteful to the Woman Walking With God

  Who originated the headship arrangement and for what reason? (I Cor. 11:3; 14:34, 40

  How does Galatians 3:26-28 show that the headship arrangement does not stem from some bias on the part of God?

  Why does wifely subjection not bring hardship upon the woman in the Christian home? (Rom. 12: 10)

  When the Christian woman is in subjection to an unbelievinghusband, what benefit may result? (I Pet. 3:1, 2)

  [Relate experiences published in the Society's publications demonstrating this point.]

  Even when there is no such favorable outcome, why can she find satisfaction in showing respect for headship? (Col. 3:18, 23)

  What headship is the Christian woman to recognize besides the headship of her husband? ( 1 Tim. 2: 11-14; 1 Cor. 14:35

  How would a woman show that she recognizes the headship principle when caring for matters pertaining to worship that would ordinarily be handled by her husband or by a dedicated male member of the congregation? (1 Cor. 11:4 5)

  Read 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 and then explain why a Sister should use a head covering in the

  following situations: (w72 pp. 445-7)

  She prays or conducts a Bible study with her undedicated children or with others in the presence of her undedicated husband

  She conducts a Bible study with her children, including her 14-year-old son who is baptized.

  She takes a brother such as the service overseer or the circuit overseer with her on a prearranged home Bible study, which she conducts

  She conducts a congregationally arranged meeting for field service.

  Why does she not need a head covering in the following situations?

  While her husband is not present, she conducts a Bible study with her children, including a nondedicated son.

  She conducts a home Bible study with a family of interested people that includes husband, wife, and children.

  She prays before going out in field service with two other sisters whom she has invited to go

  with her.

  She speaks with people as she goes from house to house while accompanied by her husband or by one of the brothers in the congregation.

  While witnesing from house to house or making a return visit with a brother she starts and conducts a home Bible study.

  She reads paragraphs at a Congregation Book Study. (km 6/80 p. 4) She translates what a speaker says at a congregation meeting for the benefit of persons understanding another

  language or for the deaf.

  Why may a sister desire to wear a head covering under certain circumstances that do not really

  require her to do so? (1 Tim. 1:5)

  How would you harmonize the principle of subjection to one's husband with the principles of Acts 5:29?

  Privileges and Responsibilities of the Christian Woman Walking With God

  What important responsibility of the woman is indicated at Proverbs 31:1? 1

  What constructive work can the discerning woman do accordingto Titus 2-3-5

  What lesson can Christian women learn from Luke 10: 38-42?

  With regard to dress and grooming, what balance does the Christian woman need to show? ( 1 Tim. 2: 9, 10; 1 Pet. 3: 3,4)

  Why is this important?

  In what vast field of service have women shared effectively, with great benefit to many? (Acts 2:17, 18; 18:26)

  Why is this such a vital service for them to perform? (Rom. 10:13, 14; 1 Cor 9:16)

  What rewards do Christian women receive for their faithfully walking with God?
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  5

  Women, Watchtower and the 'New Testament&...

  by ScarabKing in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  women, watchtower and the new testament.. even in the new world translation, and/or the kingdom interlinear translation this is what is written:.

  gal 3:28. for there is neither..male not femaleyou are all one in union with christ (gender equality).

  acts 2: 7,8,13,. ones and they (gender neutral).

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  ScarabKing

  Women, Watchtower and the New Testament.

  Even in the New World Translation, and/or the Kingdom Interlinear Translation this is what is written:

  Gal 3:28

  For there is neither..male not femaleyou are all one in union with Christ (gender equality)

  1 Cor. 11:5

  but every woman that prays or prophecies (women ARE praying and prophesying in public)

  1 Cor. 11:11

  Besdies, neither is woman without man nor man without woman (gender equality)

  1 Cor. 11: 12

  For just as the woman is out of the man, so also the man is through the woman; (gender equality)

  1 Cor 14:31

  For you can all prophesy one by one (gender neutral/equality)

  1 Cor 14: 28

  For if there is no translator let him keep silent in the congregation(this is for men same as for the women)

  1 Cor 14:31

  And prophets are to be controlled by the prophets (gender equality)

  1 Cor 14:34

  Let the women keep silent in the congregations..not permitted for them to speak (this is for women same as for men)

  1 Cor 14: 35

  ..let them question their own husbands at home (gender equality)

  Acts 1:14

  With one accord all these were persisting in prayer together with some women(gender equality)

  Acts 2: 7,8,13,

  ones and they (gender neutral)

  Acts 2: 15

  ..these [people] are in fact not drunk (gender neutral)

  Acts 2: 17

  sons and daughters will prophesy (gender equality)

  Col 3:18

  Wives be in subjection to husbands (this is for women same as for men)

  Eph 5:21

  Be in subjection to one another (gender equality)

  Eph 5:22

  Let wives be in subjection to their husbands (this is for women same as for men)

  Eph 5:25

  Husbands continue loving your wives ..just as Christ delivered himself up. (gender equality)

  1 Pet 5:5

  ..you younger men, be in subjection to the older men (gender equality) (some translations use submission here)

  1 Tim. 1: 3-4

  that you might command certain ones not to teach different doctrine. (gender neutral)

  1 Tim 1: 6-7

  certain ones have been turned asidewanting to be teachers of law..(gender neutral)

  1 Tim 2: 1-2 (KIT literal)

  in order that still and quiet living we may be leading through in all revering.. (this is for men same as for women)

  1 Tim 2:11 (KIT literal)

  woman in quietness let her be learning in all subjection (this is for women same as for men)

  1 Tim 2:12 (KIT)

  I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man (gender equality) (some scholars prefer usurp to exercise, usurping applies equally to both genders)

  Conclusion

  : Watchtower admits women are authorized to teach outside the congregation equally as men. They admit that outside the congregation, women in some cases are the heads of their households and in some cases are the spiritual heads of their households. (Shining as Illuminators..)

  In the Bible in general and Pauls writings in particular men and women are to be accorded equal treatment in the Christian congregation and within the marriage arrangement. ALL are to be submissive and/or in subjection to one another, but most specifically younger ones to older ones, Paul going so far as to say that older men working what is good within the congregation are to be accorded double honor (from men equally as women). Men and women both are to learn in quiet submissiveness and there is a time for both men and women to be silent within the congregation.

  The correct rendering of some scriptures are still in contention such as the one where Paul is said to have stated that the man is head of the woman and Christ the head of the man, and woman being created for the sake of the man. Since rendering the meaning of these scriptures as, women being less than men, is in complete disagreement with MANY other scriptures, thus this rendering must be said to be suspect and it is recommended that more research should be made by the reader as to the point Paul was trying to make.

  During his whole three and a half years of ministry here on earth, (and therefore the last three and a half years of his life) Jesus battled for the rights of women and children. So did Paul, and in Pauls case this theme reverberates throughout all of his combined writings beginning with Galations which Watchtower states was completed in 50-52 AD and ending with the Timothys which were completed between 61-65 AD. That is a fifteen-year period in which Paul stated and restated his position regarding women, and so there can be no doubt as to what he meant or felt. It is believed by many Biblical scholars and chroniclers that Paul died sometime in 65 or 66 CE and so this means that --

  Paul spent the last 15 years of his life campaigning for equal rights for women in the Christian world.

  The rest of the Bible, according to Watchtower was written between 64 and 98 AD. The issue of women and the congregation never came up again in those writings.

  It can be safely assumed that Pauls brave efforts for the equality of women in the Christian world were successful.

  This author hopes that it remains so both in our day and far into mankind's future.
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  1

  Watchtower Fable and Crap Society?

  by Dia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  sorry.

  i need some sleep.

  goodnite.

  1. 
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  ScarabKing

  Good Night