This teaching sickens me the most, being as I am df'd and my son (9) will be pressured by his JW dad to get baptised. Before you know it, the old shun your mom or else issue will be raised. Why can't they leave well enough alone? Nevermind, I know the answer to that.
milligal
JoinedPosts by milligal
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16
well, children are mature enough to take a stand in behalf of the kingdom
by aligot ripounsous ini heard this morning the "who will be saved (n 126) " public talk.
the speaker raised the point of age baptism and he confirmed what has been pointed out a couple of times on this board, namely that, according to a trend which seems to be fairly recent within the wts, people don't have to be adults to decide they want to become jws and get baptism.
the only two examples which the speaker selected were 2 children : manaseh who, at age 12, promoted idolatry, and king yoshia who restored jehovah's worship as soon as he came to power at age 8 !
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Ever been made to convince unbelieving parent to let you go to meetings?
by grizzly32 inmy parents divorced when i was about 6 and my mom married someone studying who became my stepfather.
we became one big happy disfunctional/tyrannical family with stepdad as dictator.
he thought it was important for me and my sister to get to meetings even while with our unbelieving dad.
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milligal
This is a really good subject. I never was exactly in your shoes-other than being raised a JW and telling my grandma she was going to die at armageddon if she didn't go to meetings (my mom told me to encourage her-when you're six that's encouragement).
Now my son lives with his JW dad and has visitations with me-his dad just tried the old -I need extra time to take him to the kingdom hall in your town ploy. I said 'No, he's too young to be put in that position' and that was the end of it. I have worked hard after a long custody battle (to which I gave in) to rebuild my life and my ex no matter how pushy and asshole-ish he is knows that when I do say NO I mean it.
I am also studying to be a lawyer and my being the non-custodial parent gives me more rights in court. He has taken me to court with me representing myself against his attorney-and they lost so I have earned my stripes. I feel sorry for your dad if it wasn't that way for him. JW's can make the unbelieving parent nuts if they are allowed to.
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About rules and life
by purplesofa inhaving taken a long break from jwd, from personal circumstances not with any frustration or conflict here, and now spending a few days focused at jwd, it's great to come back.. the same issues are being posted, new posters with same problems, concerns, heartbreaks, eyes opened, just beginning to have their doubts confirmed.....how wonderful.
with loving and caring people to help out.. i wanted to respond to journey-on's thread earlier but wanted to collect my thoughts and now it is locked.. the internet, cyberworld, discussions boards are a tricky thing.
we (i think esp the people that come here) are very passionate about what we do here.
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milligal
Purp-That was such a nice post. Well thought out.
I wanted to add that I have actually gone on other boards as a type of experiment (no other ex-JW boards) but other boards that interested me, and I pushed different boundaries to learn the rules on my own. As ex-JW's haven't we all learned by experience after leaving?
I just wanted to say that for me personally, it works to keep a thick skin, I don't get involved in discussions that I feel I will debate with too much passion because I know from experience I can hurt other people's feelings easily, and I try to put things softly, (please, thank you and all the other manners in between).
With that said I feel that this board is really productive for those of us coming out of the fog. If you can find some personal boundaries that work for you, you can use this interaction as part of a healing process-talking to other people who understand a part of your life that no one else would.
I hope that each person on here can find a way to make it work for them.
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It's official - my first convention
by kurtbethel ini decided that it was time my study conductor got a payoff for his nearly two years of diligent study and so i told him i will go to the convention in sandy eggo.
i have never been to a kh or assembly or anything that was jw in nature, so i am asking for a little help.
so, i made a print of my beth sarim picture that is my current avatar so i can show it to anyone i meet and the will know i have 'tower cred.
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milligal
If your study conductor is worth his weight he'll have you by the hand introducing you to everyone and they will be oh so friendly. You are a new recruit and they want you to come back again so plan on being in the middle of the swarm of hand shaking and encouragement.
With that said the content of the discourse may very well make you want to vomit. Try not to get it on your new hawaiian shirt have fun
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Being shunned by JW's who you know have done worse than you
by milligal inokay-here's one i was thinking about the other day-after reading some of your posts.
have you ever been shunned by a jw who you know was doing (or had done) some really devious things?
for instance when i was df'd the first person to give me the five minute long evil eye at the grocery store was a sister who had five children by two different fathers and a sixth child who was molotto (she was white) and she insisted that she had no idea why he came out so dark skinned.....she was never df'd.
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milligal
It's funny because I don't even think of it as being hurtful anymore. You get numb to it I think.
Jamiebowers-I am so sorry! You know I have a similar situation where my ex attends the same cong. as my sister and brother-in-law, my ex was abusive also. They go to him to spend time with our son, they won't even ask me if they can see my son. So I know they are associating with him.
Doesn't make you think that they are all robots? I mean they don't even use their own judgement to support their own moral stand they have to BE TOLD that they are to hold someone accountable-otherwise they will just stick their heads in the sand and pretend that the elders must know best....
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Being shunned by JW's who you know have done worse than you
by milligal inokay-here's one i was thinking about the other day-after reading some of your posts.
have you ever been shunned by a jw who you know was doing (or had done) some really devious things?
for instance when i was df'd the first person to give me the five minute long evil eye at the grocery store was a sister who had five children by two different fathers and a sixth child who was molotto (she was white) and she insisted that she had no idea why he came out so dark skinned.....she was never df'd.
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milligal
Okay-here's one I was thinking about the other day-after reading some of your posts. Have you ever been shunned by a JW who you know was doing (or had done) some really devious things? For instance when I was df'd the first person to give me the five minute long evil eye at the grocery store was a sister who had five children by two different fathers and a sixth child who was molotto (she was white) and she insisted that she had no idea why he came out so dark skinned.....she was never df'd. So why was she so visciously shunning me? Was it because I wasn't as clever and ruthless a liar as she was?
Another example- my sister-in-law has never spoken to me-never. I've been with my hubby for 7 years and df'd the whole time so she has never spoken to me. Well she was df'd for a short six months, during which time she serial fornicated and somehow she still managed to get herself reinstated quickly despite the community service. Somehow she feels she is better than me. At least I fornicated with the same person and then married him!
And here's the ultimate story: my hubby's aunt is baptised, doesn't go to many meetings, just assembly's and family functions. Well she also party's like a rock star and has lived with a man on the weekends (with her husband on weekdays) for as long as I've known her. When my husband and I got together she actually took his ex-wife's (a JW) side and treated us really badly. Of course his ex said we were together before their divorce and this wasn't true-but even if it was WHO WAS SHE TO JUDGE????
Why is not being df'd a license to treat people like crap when you are acting the same (or worse ways) in private? Anyone else got some juicy stories to share?
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My son and I had a talk after back from JW dad's
by milligal inwell some of you know that i gave my son over (custody) to his jw dad after a vicious 7 year long custody battle.
it broke my heart but i ran out of ways to keep fighting and it was tearing our family apart.
anyway for the last 1& 1/2 years he's lived with his dad and spent all holidays and summer break w/me.
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milligal
You know when my ex and I had to go to co-parenting counseling (court ordered) the counselor told my ex-'you can train people to lie to you'. His reasoning was that if you punish people for telling you the truth-which my ex did with me-you could not expect people to continue being truthful with you. It taught me that you really have no choice but to accept the truth when it comes to relationships. I try to practice this with my son. My ex....not so much. He still punishes our son for his honesty. My son at nine years old knows to manipulate his father or pay the price. What a sad lesson to teach a kid!
Thanks for the kind thoughts by the way!
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5
My son and I had a talk after back from JW dad's
by milligal inwell some of you know that i gave my son over (custody) to his jw dad after a vicious 7 year long custody battle.
it broke my heart but i ran out of ways to keep fighting and it was tearing our family apart.
anyway for the last 1& 1/2 years he's lived with his dad and spent all holidays and summer break w/me.
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milligal
Well some of you know that I gave my son over (custody) to his JW dad after a vicious 7 year long custody battle. It broke my heart but I ran out of ways to keep fighting and it was tearing our family apart. Anyway for the last 1& 1/2 years he's lived with his dad and spent all holidays and summer break w/me. Now he's reaching that 'tween age of sassiness and embarassment (you know, you wake up one morning and you're a huge dork in your kids eyes).
We just got him for summer break and it was so hard, he was bossy, judgemental, and a little 'borg'ish. My husband and I decided to have a sit down with him to clear the air. It didn't go well at first, so my husband said 'why don't the two of you talk alone' . So we went outside, it was dark and we sat on the trampolene. I told him that on the trampolene he could say whatever he wanted and there were no rules, I just wanted to hear the truth from him. I would not be mad or punish him for anything he said. How did he feel about being with us? Was he proud of us? Why was he telling us what to do all the time?
He started crying and told me at his dad's house his dad tells him that he can be interupted because he's just a kid, and that he almost ran away last winter because his dad is forcing him to do things that he can't do. Like swimming-he's an asperger's kid, and not very athletic. But his dad won't accept that and tries to force him to do things that he can't and he said at the last swimming pool he almost threw up. He told me that he wants to get his dad df'd so that he doesn't have to go to meetings anymore because his dad won't let him draw, take toys or sleep.
What I told him was that when his dad's parents and witness friends don't know I'm talking to him, he will sometimes listen to me-like the last swimming field trip at the end of school, his dad didn't make him swim after we had a long talk. I told him I would keep working with his dad, and that both of us (my son and I) together-as a team can try to tell his dad how he (my son) feels about different things. I tried to give him hope that things will not always be this way, and that his dad is mostly acting out of trying to please his witness friends (which is not entirely true, his dad is a huge asshole but of course I'm not telling him THAT). I told him that at our house we will repsect him, but we also want to be treated with respect.
At the end of our talk my son said 'mom when you get old, I'm putting dad in a home where they give him prune juice all the time and I'm keeping you with me'
You know, my goal is not that he dislike his dad. I try to think of nice things to say about his dad every chance I get and I try to explain in a neutral way why his dad might act the way he does. It's soooo hard. And my son clearly resents his father. How can I blame him? I left this man for beating me-and you kneo what he'd beat me over? Not doing what he wanted me to whether it was cleaning the house or regular pioneering. I know what my son is saying is true, I just can't do anything about it-YET. The good news is, after our talk my son stopped the bossy behavior-which my husband and I attributed to his acting the same way he's being treated at his dad's. We're back to having a great time together.
So sorry this is long! I had to get that out! Thanks for listening.
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Why do most people not think?
by llbh ini have just had a long conversation with a dear friend, and we came to the same conclusion most people do not really think.. he is 75 and is fizzing with ideas, got a phd at 60. in fractals( no have little idea what they are).
for instance it was and is blindingly obvious to me that the price of oil would drop, it has a little.
the reasons are simple and i am prepared to discuuss that if you want.. i have observed in relationships recently, my own included, that we ignore the what is happening, and often to our, and our familie's long term benefit.
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milligal
Well I have a couple thoughts on this phenomenon:
1) the average IQ is between 85-100. My nine year old son's is 120. So some people have a greater capacity for thinking than others do-which is a given.
2) I tell my son all the time (and I hope this doesn't offend any churchgoers) that religion is for people who don't want to think, they want someone to tell them what to do. Do people not want to think because of laziness? Low self esteem or lack of confidence? It may be none or it may be all of the above.
Personally, I find it really hard to tolerate people who do not at least try to use their brain. For instance you hear politicians use simple phrases like 'he lied' and they repeat it over and over again 'he lied, he lied, he lied...' and this simple repetition without explanation works on many people because they don't want to think about the details. And JW's? Do I even need to go down that road?
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Dinner guest- When you bring wine shouldn't they offer you some?
by Witness 007 ini've gone to many a witness dinner where i would bring one or two nice wines, hoping we would have some with dinner.
{to numb the boring conversations} only, to find the couple say "thanks" put it in the cabnet....and serve up lemonade..... and it's not an alcohol thing....two different brothers brought out there own "home made" vino instead, which taste like a mixture of fruit punch and vineger!
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milligal
Okay I know the answer to this one!!!!
My last position as a hospitality dept. director left me hanging out with the catering director whose clients included many politicians, (including George W) and other various important people, anyway-when someone brings a bottle of wine it is poor manners to throw it in the cabinet-unless you are bringing it as a housewarming gift. But bring it to dinner-yes it should be opened and offered.
On that note, I do not know many JW's who have good manners-I didn't get mine until I left