how many of you ex-jw kids were able to believe in mainstream christianity after leaving the borg?
within the last year, i have opened up to getting to know god again.
what's funny is that when i prayed for truth and to know god, i knew and had a real feeling in my heart that i was getting closer to something real, but there was still a voice going, "hey, it's me jehovah, and you have rejected me!".
I am so burned out on religion. Checked out various religons/ beliefs -- but "couldn't go there."
I see the bible as being a literary work, like all ancient texts.
BTS wrote:
Nature abhors a vacuum.
I rather think:
Religion whores a vacuum.
Ben (screwed by the god-thing)
i have been inspired to ask this question by narkissos' thread: "is 'consciousness' overrated?
" (et al).. whilst my question is primarily directed to you nark, i want to open this up to everyone else also.. nark - from your opening ramblings (and i mean that in the most endearing way) on "is 'consciousness' overrated?
", and from other recent posts, i get the feeling that you are asking these questions because you know something and you are trying to grasp onto what you know.
(This is my second attempt to send a message. I hope the first one doesn't drag it's tired ass home in the wee hours of the morning. I'll try and rewrite what I wrote.)
Thanks for the response, Narkissos. That's N-A-R-K-I-S-S-O-S, right? (Sorry I misspelled your name in the previous post. Don't hate me because of the lobotomy, OK?)
Thanks for the Latin lesson. Now I can impress my friends by casually dropping into a conversation, "Oh, by the way Nicto ergo sum."
I liked what you wrote:
I believe our "mind" exceeds our (individual) "brain" through language and culture. What " we" think is actually the product of a network of brains extending over many generations and places. And it will go on when "we"'re no longer around --
Are you kind of talking about Jung's idea of the collective unconscious and recurring archetypes? Anyway it made me think of a stanza in a poem by Israeli poet, Yehuda Amichai.
To live is to build a ship and a harbor/ at the same time. And to complete the harbor/ long after the ship was drowned.
A couple of years ago, I was riding around with some other JW guys. Just goofing off. When one of the guys excitedly began talking about a TV program on cannibals. He said: "They ate everything! They ate the eyeballs; they ate the penis; they even ate the mind!" At the time, it brought forth a humorous image for me. A family sitting down to dinner and the dad says, "Honey, would you pass me some of that mind." Anyway, lately, I'm thinking, maybe the guy was right.
Hey, N-A-R-K-I-S-S-O-S, thanks for the info and your kind response.
Ben (thinkin')
i have been inspired to ask this question by narkissos' thread: "is 'consciousness' overrated?
" (et al).. whilst my question is primarily directed to you nark, i want to open this up to everyone else also.. nark - from your opening ramblings (and i mean that in the most endearing way) on "is 'consciousness' overrated?
", and from other recent posts, i get the feeling that you are asking these questions because you know something and you are trying to grasp onto what you know.
Holy Sh*t! You guys are deep!
I'm sure I'm wading into an ocean that is way over my head, but *gulp*-- "Miz Scarlet, I don' know nuthin' 'bout birthin' no babies ... and even less about philosophy."
So I readily defer to all of the intellectuals here. All my 'learnin' comes from watchin' TV and reading tabloid trash. But I did come across some quotes from Socrates recently. First he reportedly says: "Know thyself." Then, somewhere else he says: "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing." Hmmmm? So how does one reconcile both of these?
OK, this was allegedly written down by his disciple Plato and then translated and possible "fingered" by, well, who knows? And yes, according to some texts the original Greek for "know thyself" might be understood as meaning "being the best you can be." And please, to anyone who might have the "straight-up," please shake me and let me know if I've taken a wrong turn down the misinformation highway.
But having been a JW and "truly" believed that the WTS knew the great-big-shiny cosmic truth about the past, present and future -- and then, having painfully fallen off the mountain top and "conjectured" that everything I thought I knew was smoke and mirrors, well, maybe I had one of them epiphanies? a Buddhist satori? or maybe I just sobered up -- but, all of the preceding leads to my asking "what is consciousness, anyway?" I can't really hold on to the idea of dualism, or the idea that the mind is a separate entity from the brain. Narkosis (sp? and gawd, smart dude!) mentioned Descartes maxim: "I think, therefore I am." Maybe I'm a degenerate, because for me it's "I blink, therefore I am." (What's the Latin for "I blink"?) Yes, I'm really burned out on EVERYTHING.
There was a really smart guy on this site, sorry I can't remember his name or the title of his post. (But I think he listed Japan as his country) He was discussing Richard Dawkins book "The God Delusion" -- gawd, that was tough read. He also mentioned Dawkins much older book "The Selfish Gene" and the idea of "memes" a kind of intellectual/cultural virus that can spread from one individual to another. And this brings me around to the original intent for posting: Isn't religion really a kind of cognitive virus? a communal hallucination? some bad Kool-Aid?
So "what do I know I know"? You got me.
Ben (confused)
i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.
the next day i sent her this e-mail.
one should never be afraid of ideas.
... and, oh yeah, Seeker4 --
Excellent letter. Would you mind if I made a copy for myself (I'd always include proper attribution if I shared it with anyone else.)
Thanks for all your effort.
Ben (thinkin')
i posted a thread earlier this week about a conversation i had with my jw ex-wife.
the next day i sent her this e-mail.
one should never be afraid of ideas.
Hello Reniaa (Is that your name? It sounds/ looks very interesting -- although I can only guess how it's pronounced.)
With all due respect to you -- and you come across as a very sincere, good-hearted person -- what does your following comment really mean? How do you explain how you arrived at this conclusion?
They still got jehovah going for them and thats more than the others.
Have you investigated other religions and their understanding and relationship with "God," YHWH, or a divine originator? Although I am totally a-religious (without religion), I've found that others have very deep, sincere beliefs about God/ YHWH/ Allah, etc. One of the most enlightening things to me was how similar religious behavior was around ideology.
Also, somewhere on the net I found this WTS quote: "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true." -- Watchtower (12/1/1991, p. 7) You'll probably want to look that up to confirm it -- I no longer have access to WT literature.
If that quote is true, how do you reconcile the major shifts in WTS teaching over the years? Especially the seemingly ironclad promise about the 1914 Generation. Haven't they proven their own disingenuousness?
The best to you,
Ben (to the mountain top)
my mother had this discussion yesterday.
basically, my main argument was that if the fds gets jehovah's holy spirit and their "food" is "the truth", yet they always are correcting themselves, how can anyone in all fairness believe it's "the truth"??
you can't show scripturally why organ transplants are a form of cannibalism and clearly a disfellowshipping offense and a couple of years later after possible disfellowshippings or death, and then believe jehovah god changed his view suddenly.
Hi Alpaca
By the way, have you guys seen this quote? Can't remember where I saw it or said it, but it is great.
Trust those who are searching for the truth, mistrust those who have found it!!!!I see Galileo has already posted the author, Andre Gide. Although I've heard it translated as: "We must always follow somebody looking for truth, and we must always run away from anyone who finds it."
These days -- I'm not following anybody, nobody, nothing. I rather like Nietzsche's quote: "Truths are illusions that we have forgotten are illusions."
Ben (jaded)
there are a few terms i cannot stand that jw's use and now i have to consciously convince myself not to use:.
1. the truth - um nothing could be further from being accurate.
2. worldly - as if they are 'other worldly' or 'supreme beings'.
All my life I've really disliked the JW use of the word APOSTATE.
What a piece of manipulating propaganda. Question or take issue with the official WTS dogma du jour and you are instantly morphed into the spawn of Satan. Even listening to an "apostate" can twist your mind and heart into a venom-spewing gargoyle for which there is no hope.
What garbage.
Ben (through it)
hey, don't want to frizz any reconditioned christian straight people here -- so if gay stuff bothers you, please go to the next post.
thanks.. i've started a group for gay disfellowshipped, da-d, or missing-in-action jws.
thought we could share a few stark-raving post-jw survival stories.
OK, I'm back. Got home from work. Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate that you took the time to write.
I kind of went crazy on Sunday and started that Yahoo group -- but I've disbanded the "party of one." So the link is no longer any good. (Couldn't figure out how to edit/delete it in the post.) And it seems there are lots of other resources for those who are XJW-Lite.
Hey, you're a sweetheart Auntie Momz. (Isn't that a movie?) I'll send you a birthday card.
There were some other nice response, like from Spaghetti-Man -- thanks for the kind PMs (is that what they're called? Sounds like something female to me.)
Wish I had written down peoples' names to personally respond but ...
Ben (forgettin')
i guess its time to throw my little story out there.
i keep reading everyones stories and thinking how brave you have all been, coming out of the organisation and facing all the repercussions of doing so.. .
i only last august disassociated myself.
Hey, Spaghetti-Man,
I'm so glad you posted this -- and I wish I had read it sooner. (And aren't there some nice people on this site. )
I would love to hear more about your story and journey.(Mine's been pretty rocky as of late.) Be sure and let us know when your book is published!
Ben (done)
hey, don't want to frizz any reconditioned christian straight people here -- so if gay stuff bothers you, please go to the next post.
thanks.. i've started a group for gay disfellowshipped, da-d, or missing-in-action jws.
thought we could share a few stark-raving post-jw survival stories.
Hey, everyone, thanks for the replies.
Yes, I should have done more investigation of this site. Well, beat me with a rolled-up Watchtower! All in all, people seem very nice here.
Oh, yeah, and happy Mother's Day ... (I guess we can celebrate that now, huh?)
Any spare "apostate" mothers available? (Gawd, I hate the word "apostate." Push that button with the JWs and a steel door slams shut in their brain. "We. No. Go. There!" spoken in zombie-speak.)
Ben (there)
PS: Am I using these little "smiley faces" correctly? I fear transgressing the Internet Ms Manners.
