Mouthy, is today your 81st birthday? I saw on a post you wrote -- and it said Birthday! 81. (Don't know how these things work?)
If so, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Hope you have lots of great friends and family to celebrate it with!
Love,
Ben
Posts by BenV
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106MOUTHY'S 81st Birthday
by BenV inmouthy, is today your 81st birthday?
i saw on a post you wrote -- and it said birthday!
(don't know how these things work?).
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108
Gay Marriage - The War for Equality
by Inquisitor ini've just read lola28's thread "for those against gay marriage".
i thought i should present a clear message on what i think the gay marriage issue is all about.
the trouble with most discussions on this issue is that it gets clouded by a plethora of side-issues, non-issues, cave-men chest-thumping and medieval puritanism.
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BenV
Ah, now, c'mon, Bizzy ... "people of size" need good lovin' too.
and ... are you saying that a straight man with a fat wife -- would probably "turn" gay? Nah, that ain't gonna happen, right? Ben (in love)Forget gay marriage! I'm still trying to come to terms with GAY CHUBBY DATING. WTF?
If that picture doesn't turn you heterosexual in about a nano-second - I give up. Carry on.
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GENESIS (The lost chapter) Adam & Eve & Steve
by BenV inrecent scholarly bible research has uncovered a lost chapter in genesis.
be forewarned there's a few old english naughty words.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z73oskpludq.
ben (studying).
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BenV
Recent scholarly bible research has uncovered a lost chapter in Genesis. Be forewarned there's a few Old English naughty words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z73OSKpluDQ
Ben (studying)
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280
California Court Affirms Right To Gay Marriage
by BenV injust got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
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BenV
Hurray! For the California Supreme Court!
Even with conservative judges, they knew the RIGHT THING TO DO! And that was to respect justice -- and honor equality and dignity for all Californians. They were able to rise above the bigotry, fear and hatred fomented daily against gay and lesbian people throughout this country and state. They used their wisdom to grant them the same rights as other Californians. It is truly a wonderful thing.
This post has been quite an education for me. I learned a great deal about some of the posters here. Of course, I knew that prejudice and bigotry still thrive in this state and country. But to see it unfold and parade about -- is still a hurtful, ugly thing to see. But such is the mentality of some people.
It's become apparent that it would be meaningless for me to return to this thread. What is there left to be said? Some posters have rejoiced in this momentous civil rights victory. And I rejoice with them. Others have chosen a different course. They reveal themselves for what they are.
Love to all my brothers and sisters working for equality,
Benjamin
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BenV
Gopher!
Excellent comments!
Ben
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280
California Court Affirms Right To Gay Marriage
by BenV injust got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
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BenV
The state supreme court based it's decision on "civil rights" and the equal treatment to all people -- not in defining marriage. Regarding domestic partnerships vs. marriage -- it's the old smoke-and-mirrors of "separate but equal."
Re: the legislature. Two gay marriage bills passed the state assembly and senate during different sessions -- both of them were vetoed by the Republican governor.
the Constitution does NOT speak of marriage in any stretch of the imagination. When the Court steps outside its boundaries, it serves only to constrain its stature.
This is a subject that should be reserved for the legislature.
All I have to say is this country waves the flag and defines itself as the land of liberty and justice for all. It's time for it to align its actions with it noble wordsl Time to join the rest of the civilized world that recognizes human equality and the importance of basic civil rights. Some other countries that have legalized gay marriage: the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, and Spain.
Wishing you the best,
Ben (out)
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BenV
Thought this poem by Portuguese poet Anthero de Quental (1842-1891) might -- somehow -- fit in here? But then what do I know?
DIVINE COMEDY
Lifting their arms to the heavens on high
And addressing the invisible gods,
The men cry out, “Immovable gods,
Who gains from invincible fate? Why
Did you create us? Time unfurls
Relentlessly, and all it breeds
Is pain, illusion, strife, foul deeds,
In a cruel and delirious whirl. . .
Wouldn’t it have been better for us
To remain in the peace of pre-matter,
In the eternal sleep of nothingness?
Why were we made, if pain is our greatest
End?” But the gods, with a voice yet sadder,
Say, “Why, O men, did you create us?”###
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280
California Court Affirms Right To Gay Marriage
by BenV injust got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
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BenV
Junction-Guy -- I'm gonna give you a big cyber-hug anyway.
From what I've read -- and I don't really know you that well -- but I believe you have a sincere, good heart. And believe me, I know how feeling conflicted, having indecision, unresolved inner turmoil can feel -- it is one tough road to navigate. I'm glad we're both still in one piece.
Sure, some people seem to know innately what their orientation is -- straight or gay -- and live accordingly. For me, being a Jehovah's Witness led to soul wrenching internalized self-loathing and sadness -- I kind of felt like I was being hated because of whom I loved. How I prayed to God to make me different ... I prayed and prayed and prayed. My being disfellowshipped and leaving the truth has brought a great deal of hurt and pain to my parents. I still cry about it sometimes. But sometimes, I've learned, you have to pay a heavy price to claim your own life. To be authentic, real and true.
I always thought that if I could make it through high school -- things would get better. And in some important areas they have -- and I am so thankful. But I'm learning life doesn't necessarily stop being difficult. So please know that it was never my intention to deliberately hurt you. I'm saddened that you've had such a difficult time and some bad experiences with people.
What I wish for you is what I hope you wish for me -- that we can just live and let live.
I do so wish you the very best,
Benjamin
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280
California Court Affirms Right To Gay Marriage
by BenV injust got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
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BenV
Hey there Junction-Guy,
You wrote:
How do I know this?--from my own personal experience.
What you know is really all about you. And you've made choices on how to live your life. Great!
But your experience is not my experience. Nor is it the experience of the people I know intimately.
Sounds like your mind is made up, Junction-Guy. Wonderful! I respect that you need to live your life as you see fit. But why is it so hard to comprehend that personal freedoms and civil rights for others are not for you to dictate, mandate or police.
I'd give you a big hug, Junction-Guy -- in friendship -- but it sounds like you wouldn't want a person like me touching you. Love, anyway,
Benjamin
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280
California Court Affirms Right To Gay Marriage
by BenV injust got this email!.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/15cnd-marriage.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss.
ben (celebratin' with friends).
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BenV
Hello Junction-Guy,
I'm really happy that you know who you are and how you want to live. But several things you've written are assumptions about other people that you couldn't possible know -- unless you were them.
I do not think that homosexuality is something people are born with,
How do you know this? Have you spoken with reputable psychologists or sociologists who have thoroughly and empirically investigated this? Or have you avoided an honest investigation because it would challenge your views. You make the assumption that gay behavior and being a Christians -- cannot be reconciled. Then why are there so many educated, intelligent members of the Christian clergy, both straight and gay, who have opened their churches and theology to be inclusive of gay people? There's an excellent documentary (on DVD) titled "For the Bible Tells Me So" that addresses all of the things you've mentioned here. If you really want to get an objective view -- I recommend that you see it. There's also a great documentary (on DVD) titled "One Nation Under God." It looks at ex-gay ministries and includes a variety of comments from Christians, scientists, and people on both sides of the issue. I found it interesting (and they're in the film) that the two founders of Exodus (the leading ex-gay ministry) who were extremely devoted Christians ended up falling in love with each other, declared their love for each other on national TV and became life partners and, of course, left that ministry.
And the majority of gay people know that unless they proclaim they were born gay, gay marriage doesn't stand a hope of a chance in most of this country. Therefore it becomes politically expedient to proclaim being born gay, even if deep down they don't totally buy into it.
Do you really think this is a fair comment? You're implying that gay people are being disingenuous and dishonest. To me, that's a very harsh accusation. Junction-Guy, I can understand people's fear of "the outsider," the other," of people who are different -- it's basic tribal behavior and goes back for millennia. This is where I think Jesus' counsel about not judging people is so wise. Do the Christian thing -- and don't judge. I've had to give up my family and a lifetime of friends and a belief system that made me feel safe, assured and secure. Leaving my family and friends is very, very painful to me -- and believe me, if I had a choice, I wouldn't be gay. BUT I AM. I wish you the best, Junction-Guy on your journey. Benjamin