I had had some intense discussion with my mom (will post that in its topic of its own). I raised the issue of translation in the NWT regarding the words Theotes and Theiotes in reference to Colossians and Romans. Of course her reply wasn’t till later that day when she said she had an answer for me. I told her I already read the insight books reasoning on it and that I already explained the flaw in that reasoning. Going nowhere fast.
song19
JoinedPosts by song19
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could jw's prove their beliefs without watchtower literature?
by atpeace ini was pondering this question today.
i thought it might be an interesting tactic to use with my family.
if i simply asked that they prove all beliefs by the bible alone.. growing up - every time discipline or counsel was given - it was based on getting out the bound volumes.
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song19
Thank you! All your videos are fantastic and we're always eagerly waiting for more! Great job!
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Hello everyone! New here. Born into it....ugh.
by Lady Zombie inwhere to start?.
i thought about typing out a nutshelled life history but changed my mind.
suffice it to say, i was born into "the truth," attempted suicide at 14, "lost my faith" at this time, beat into submission into carrying on as usual, endured a horrible marriage and equally horrible divorce, and am more or less still in it (appearances only!
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song19
It's never too late to go back and get an education! I know it seems like it but it isn't. Try starting slow, like taking one class, and see how it goes.
Plus, getting an education provides a great opportunity to meet new people and it will also help you cope!Thanks for the support. I have been thinking on it... but my dreams are no where near attainable at my age now, especially with 2 kids in tow. I am re-evaluating my life, and although I am feeling completely worthless, if I didn't have my kids there would be nothing keeping me here. Yes, it's been a rough few weeks on me. On the up side, I am trying to figure out who I am and what I enjoy... and perhaps I may developed an interest worth going back to school for.
Anyhoo, thanks again for the support. I would be lost if I didn't have this board... it is a good outlet!
again, welcome!
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25 years ago today my wife and I were married in a Kingdom Hall
by Thechickennest intoday is our silver wedding anniversary!
little did we know that twenty five years later we would be out of what we now call a cult!
we were such good, active witnesses......we are happier now as a couple.
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song19
HAPPY ANNIVERSARY
We recently celebrated ours and we were married in a KH too. Now I wish more than ever we had done the beach thing. I always wanted to be married on the beach in the Caribbean in bare feet with flowers in my hair. Not only did I have the traditional wedding; I now have to remember our ceremony being in a KH. My husband and I thought maybe we could renew our vows later, would be a romantic thing to do, but the Society released that that article in the mags that one couldn't do that. I am very happy to know that if I want to renew my vows now, maybe the way I have always wanted (hint hint prov1320), we can. That watchtower has lots of power.
Again, congrats on the 25!! Good for you!!! -
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Wrote a letter to the Catholic Chruch.
by Blueblades init was 1969 when i answered that first knock.
1970 when i got baptized.
it was suggested that i write a letter to the catholic chruch where i was baptized and disavow my baptism,that i no longer considered myself a catholic.
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song19
I did write a letter to the church I was baptized in when I was an infant. I even included the paradise tract with it. I was but a teen when I did it and was baptized as a witness at 15. stupid really, but anyway.
In terms of if I'll write a letter of disassociation to the JW’s, only if it comes down to a JC. I have faded away enough prior to me seeing 'the light' so it's no surprise that I am not at the hall or in service. But if it ever gets out that I have 'apostate views' and a JC is formed... I'll just write the letter.
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Hello everyone! New here. Born into it....ugh.
by Lady Zombie inwhere to start?.
i thought about typing out a nutshelled life history but changed my mind.
suffice it to say, i was born into "the truth," attempted suicide at 14, "lost my faith" at this time, beat into submission into carrying on as usual, endured a horrible marriage and equally horrible divorce, and am more or less still in it (appearances only!
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song19
Welcome! I too am going through my own spiritual journey, and although I can't explain how the earth was made, I have to attribute it to a creator. My problem is; does he care about us?
I am so happy to hear you made something of yourself and went to school. I gave up every dream I had and now at 30 have nothing. I am still having a hard time with it and I am very angry. I just got out 2 months ago. I am trying to cope. This board does help!
Welcome... thanks for sharing your story.
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Anyone noticed the changes in WT july 2008??
by hideme ini have been searching on this website for a topic about the study watchtower of july 2008. did anyone notice the changes?
they have some new light on jesus' illustrations.. some interesting ligtht....
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song19
more references:
GT chapter 28
Finally, Jesus likens "the kingdom of the heavens" to a dragnet that gathers up fish of every kind. When the fish are separated, the unsuitable are thrown away but the good are kept. So, Jesus says, it will be in the conclusion of the system of things; the angels will separate the wicked from the righteous, reserving the wicked for annihilation.
Jesus himself begins this fishing project, calling his first disciples to be "fishers of men." Under angelic surveillance, the fishing work continues down through the centuries. At last the time comes to haul in the "dragnet," which symbolizes the organizations on earth professing to be Christian.it-1 p 649
In the Scriptures, the dragnet is used figuratively with reference to the gathering of prospective members of "the kingdom of the heavens." (Mt 13:47, 48) It is also used to depict the heart of an immoral woman (Ec 7:26) as well as schemes to ensnare others. (Mic 7:2) Also, military conquest is likened to fishing with a dragnet.—Hab 1:15-17.
it-1 p 1179
(8) The dragnet (Mt 13:47-50). With this illustration Jesus describes a separating, or culling out, of those unfit for the Kingdom of the heavens. Verse 49 points to "the conclusion of the system of things" as the time when the fulfillment culminates. Since the dragnet gathered up both "fine" fish and "unsuitable" ones, the net itself must represent an arrangement that embraces those who are truly in line for the Kingdom as well as those who falsely claim to be.
A dragnet is a net of rope or flax cords designed to be drawn along the bottom of a body of water. By means of it all kinds of fish would be gathered. The illustration was most appropriate for Jesus’ disciples, some of whom were fishermen. They well knew that some fish were unsuitable and had to be discarded because, not having fins and scales, they were unclean and could not be eaten, according to the Mosaic Law.—Le 11:9-12; De 14:9, 10.w87 4/15 p.9
Finally, Jesus likens "the kingdom of the heavens" to a dragnet that gathers up fish of every kind. When the fish are separated, the unsuitable are thrown away but the good are kept. So, Jesus says, it will be in the conclusion of the system of things; the angels will separate the wicked from the righteous, reserving the wicked for annihilation.If anyone needs scans, no problemo! I also have the July 15/08 watchtower if anyone needs a scan of it.
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Anyone noticed the changes in WT july 2008??
by hideme ini have been searching on this website for a topic about the study watchtower of july 2008. did anyone notice the changes?
they have some new light on jesus' illustrations.. some interesting ligtht....
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song19
I believe this article descibes the former meaning of the Dragnet??
*** w92 6/15 pp. 17-22 What Do the Dragnet and Fish Mean for You? ***
"To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens."—MATTHEW 13:11.
DO YOU enjoy knowing a secret or solving a puzzle? What if doing so would help you to see more clearly your part in God’s purpose? Happily, you can gain such privileged insight by means of an illustration that Jesus gave. It confounded many who heard it and has puzzled countless others since, but you can understand it.
2 Note what Jesus said in Matthew chapter 13 about his use of illustrations. His disciples asked: "Why is it you speak to them by the use of illustrations?" (Matthew 13:10) Yes, why did Jesus use illustrations that most people would not understand? He replied in verses 11 to 13: "To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. . . . This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it."
3 Jesus then applied Isaiah 6:9, 10, which described a people who were spiritually deaf and blind. We, though, need not be like that. If we understand and act on his illustrations, we can be very happy—now and into the endless future. Jesus offers us this warm assurance: "Happy are your eyes because they behold, and your ears because they hear." (Matthew 13:16) That assurance covers all of Jesus’ illustrations, but let us focus on the brief parable of the dragnet, recorded at Matthew 13:47-50.An Illustration With Deep Meaning
4 "The kingdom of the heavens is like a dragnet let down into the sea and gathering up fish of every kind. When it got full they hauled it up onto the beach and, sitting down, they collected the fine ones into vessels, but the unsuitable they threw away. That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things: the angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous and will cast them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be."
5 You have probably seen men fishing with a net, at least on film or on television, so Jesus’ parable is not difficult to envision. But what about the details and the meaning? For example, Jesus said that this illustration is about "the kingdom of the heavens." Yet, surely he did not mean that "every kind" of person, the fine and the unsuitable, or wicked, will be in the Kingdom. Also, who do the fishing? Did this fishing and separating occur in Jesus’ day, or might it be confined to our time, "the conclusion of the system of things"? Do you see yourself in this parable? How can you avoid ending up among those who weep and gnash their teeth?
6 Such questions show that this illustration is not simple after all. Do not forget, though: "Happy are your eyes because they behold, and your ears because they hear." Let us see if we can delve into its meaning so that our ears are not unresponsive and our eyes are not shut as to its import. Actually, we already have a vital key to unlocking its meaning. The preceding article told of Jesus’ inviting Galilean fishermen to leave that occupation and take up a spiritual work as "fishers of men." (Mark 1:17) He told them: "From now on you will be catching men alive."—Luke 5:10.
7 In line with that, the fish in this parable stand for humans. Hence, when verse 49 speaks of separating the wicked from the righteous, it refers, not to righteous or wicked marine life, but to righteous or wicked people. Similarly, verse 50 should not make us think of sea animals that weep or gnash their teeth. No. This parable is about the gathering of humans and their later separation, which is very serious, as the outcome shows.
8 Note that the unsuitable fish, that is, the wicked, will be cast into the fiery furnace, where they will have to weep and gnash their teeth. Elsewhere Jesus linked such weeping and gnashing to being outside the Kingdom. (Matthew 8:12; 13:41, 42) At Matthew 5:22 and 18:9, he even mentioned "fiery Gehenna," referring to permanent destruction. Does that not show how vital it is to get the meaning of this illustration and to act accordingly? All of us know that there neither are nor will be wicked ones in God’s Kingdom. Hence, when Jesus said that "the kingdom of the heavens is like a dragnet," he must have meant that in connection with God’s Kingdom, there is a feature like a net let down to collect various sorts of fish.
9 After the dragnet was let down and the fish collected, there would be a separating work. Who did Jesus say were involved? Matthew 13:49 identified these fishermen-separators as angels. So Jesus was telling us about angelic oversight of an instrument on earth that is used to identify men—some fine and suitable for the Kingdom of heaven, others proving unsuitable for that calling.The Fishing—When?
10 The context helps us to find out when this applies. Just before this, Jesus gave an illustration about the sowing of fine seed, but then weeds were oversown in the field, which pictures the world. He explained at Matthew 13:38 that the fine seed represented "the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one." These grew up side by side for many centuries, until the harvest in the conclusion of the system of things. Then the weeds were separated and afterward burned up. Paralleling this with the illustration of the dragnet, we see that the drawing of creatures into the net was to extend over a long period of time.—Matthew 13:36-43.
11 According to Jesus’ parable, fish would be gathered indiscriminately, that is, the dragnet took in both fine fish and unsuitable fish. While the apostles were alive, the angels guiding the fishing operation used God’s Christian organization to catch "fish" who became anointed Christians. You might say that before Pentecost 33 C.E., Jesus’ fishing for men netted about 120 disciples. (Acts 1:15) But once the congregation of anointed Christians was established, the fishing with the dragnet instrument began, and thousands of fine fish were caught. From 36 C.E., the fishing spread widely into international waters, as Gentiles were drawn to Christianity and became members of Christ’s anointed congregation.—Acts 10:1, 2, 23-48.
12 In the centuries after the apostles left the scene, there continued to be some Christians striving to find and hold to divine truth. At least some of these had God’s approval, and he anointed them with holy spirit. Still, the death of the apostles removed a restraining influence, allowing a widespread apostasy to develop. (2 Thessalonians 2:7, 8) An organization grew up that unworthily professed to be God’s congregation. It falsely claimed to be the holy nation anointed with God’s spirit to rule with Jesus.
13 Do you think that unfaithful professors of Christianity had any part in the illustration of the dragnet? Well, there is reason to answer, yes, they did. The symbolic dragnet included Christendom. True, for ages the Catholic Church tried to keep the Bible from the common people. Nevertheless, over the centuries members of Christendom played a key role in translating, copying, and distributing God’s Word. Churches later formed or supported Bible societies, which rendered the Bible into the languages of remote lands. They also sent out medical missionaries and teachers, who made rice Christians. This gathered vast numbers of unsuitable fish, who did not have God’s approval. But at least it exposed millions of non-Christians to the Bible and to a form of Christianity, although corrupted.
14 All the while, the scattered faithful ones adhering to God’s Word exerted themselves as best they could. At any given time, they constituted God’s true anointed congregation on earth. And we may be sure that they too were catching fish, or men, many of whom God would view as fine and whom he would anoint with his spirit. (Romans 8:14-17) These fine professors of Christianity were able to bring Bible truth to many who had become rice Christians or who had gained limited Biblical knowledge from the Scriptures translated into their tongues by Christendom’s Bible societies. True, the collecting of fine fish was going on, even though most being gathered by Christendom were unsuitable from God’s standpoint.
15 So the dragnet represents an earthly instrument that professes to be God’s congregation and that gathers in fish. It has included both Christendom and the congregation of anointed Christians, the latter having continued to collect fine fish, under the invisible guidance of the angels, in line with Matthew 13:49.Our Time Is Special
16 Let us now consider the time element. For centuries the dragnet instrument gathered fine fish as well as many unsuitable, or wicked, ones. Then the time came when the angels got involved in doing a crucial separating work. When? Well, verse 49 clearly says that it is during "the conclusion of the system of things." This matches what Jesus said in the illustration of the sheep and the goats: "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."—Matthew 25:31, 32.
17 Hence, in accord with Matthew 13:47-50, a crucial separating work under angelic guidance has been in progress since "the conclusion of the system of things" began in 1914. This became particularly evident after 1919, when the remnant of anointed ones were freed from temporary spiritual bondage, or captivity, and became a more effective instrument for accomplishing the fishing work.
18 What was to happen to the separated fine fish? Verse 48 says that the angelic fishermen-separators "collected the fine [fish] into vessels, but the unsuitable they threw away." The vessels are protective containers into which fine fish are put. Has this occurred in our time? Definitely. As symbolic fine fish have been caught alive, they have been gathered into congregations of true Christians. These vessellike congregations have helped to protect and to reserve them for divine service, do you not agree? Still, someone could think, ‘This is all well and good, but what does it have to do with my present life and my future?’
19 The outworking of what was here illustrated was not limited to the centuries between the apostles’ time and 1914. During that period, the dragnet instrument came to gather both false and true professors of Christianity. Yes, it was gathering in both unsuitable fish and fine fish. Furthermore, the separating work done by angels did not end back around 1919. No, indeed. In some aspects this illustration of the dragnet is applicable right down to our time. We are involved and so is our immediate future. It is imperative for us to understand how and why that is so if we want these words to describe us: "Happy are your eyes because they behold, and your ears because they hear" with understanding.—Matthew 13:16.
20 You likely know that after 1919 the anointed remnant got busy in the preaching work in cooperation with the angels, who continued to use the symbolic dragnet to haul fish onto the beach, to separate the fine ones from the unsuitable ones. Statistics from that period show that the catch of fine fish for anointing with God’s spirit continued as the last ones of the 144,000 were gathered by the symbolic net. (Revelation 7:1-4) But by the mid-1930’s, the collecting of fine fish for anointing with holy spirit basically ended. Was the congregation of the anointed remnant then to discard the net, as it were, and simply sit idle, waiting for their heavenly reward? Not at all!Your Involvement in the Fishing
21 Jesus’ illustration of the dragnet focused on fine fish who would be rewarded with a place in the Kingdom of the heavens. Yet, aside from that illustration, there is other symbolic fishing occurring on a vast scale, even as was illustrated in the preceding article. This fishing is, not for the fine anointed fish mentioned in Jesus’ illustration, but for symbolic fish to be caught alive and given the marvelous hope of life on a paradise earth.—Revelation 7:9, 10; compare Matthew 25:31-46.
22 If you entertain that hope, then you can rejoice that Jehovah has allowed a lifesaving fishing work to continue till now. This has made it possible for you to gain a marvelous prospect. Prospect? Yes, that is the fitting word to use, since the outcome will be in accord with our continued faithfulness to the One who is directing the ongoing fishing effort. (Zephaniah 2:3) Recall from the illustration that not all fish drawn up by the dragnet experience a favorable outcome. Jesus said that the unsuitable, or wicked, ones will be separated from the righteous ones. To what end? At Matthew 13:50, Jesus described the serious consequence for the unsuitable, or wicked, fish. These will be cast into the fiery furnace, meaning eternal destruction.—Revelation 21:8.
23 For the fine anointed fish, as well as for the symbolic fish who may live forever on earth, there is a glorious future. With good reason, then, the angels are seeing to it that right now a successful fishing operation is being carried on around the globe. And what a catch is being made! You would be right in saying that in its own way, it is just as miraculous a catch as that of the literal fish that the apostles enjoyed when they let down their nets at Jesus’ direction.
24 Are you having as active a share as possible in this lifesaving work of spiritual fishing? No matter how extensive our individual share has been up to this time, each of us can beneficially look at what is being accomplished globally in the grand fishing and lifesaving work now in progress. Doing so should stimulate us to even greater zeal in letting down the nets for a catch in the days right ahead!—Compare Matthew 13:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:1. -
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Blood doctrine not preached in Bulgaria?
by song19 ini was reviewing the following youtube video about the blood issue with jws.. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptqz3ktbuni.
at around 2 minutes the issue arose about how jws were able to become a registered church in bulgaria that the jws agreed not to preach the blood doctrine.
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song19
I was reviewing the following youtube video about the blood issue with JW’s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptqZ3KtbUNI
At around 2 minutes the issue arose about how JWs were able to become a registered church in Bulgaria… that the JWs agreed not to preach the blood doctrine. Does anyone know if this is true and if there is any proof published and where I can get my hands on it? :) -
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The End of Circuit Overseers
by scotsman inis indeed apparently nigh as another poster predicted along with the end of the weekly bs.
not sure when this should take place but i'm reliably informed by a family member that one of the uk's overseers was talking about it fairly recently.
reduced to weekend visits by an outside but local elder instead.. i have no further info..
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song19
Doesn't the CO rotation end this year (September)? And if so it would, in my mind, make sence to remove the CO arrangement before re-locating them all. just a thought.