some person with recent "eldertude" correct me if I am wrong-- but Elders have been able to count time for this type of thing for a while. (i try to repress this stuff so maybe i am wrong)
hillbilly
JoinedPosts by hillbilly
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28
Just Had My Elder Visit
by Undecided ini just got through talking to a couple of elders, they both had moved here from other places, one from fla and one from wis. i can't remember their names.
they said the society had instructed them to call on all inactive ones.. they were nice to me, but had the same old answers that i used to present.
i brought up a lot of things for them to think about, but their minds have been carefully programed so it didn't register.
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Burn baby...BURN
by Gig intonight is the night...i'm going to have myself a nice watchtower bonfire.
every wts pub i own is going up in smoke...one by pathetic one.
the stack of mags, the books...including my two nwts.
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hillbilly
Good Idea-- just dont burn up your neigborhood............hahahaha congrats I hope you find a little peace and closure.
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Which Watchtower teachings lack logic?
by sleepy inwhich watchtower teachings lack logic?.
i know you're all tempted to say all of them, but some beliefs if the facts were true, would be logical.. which ones that are supposed to be a logical consequence of a true fact are in fact not logical whether the fact is true or not?.
for an example of logical belief based on untrue or unprovable fact , if god created adam and all humans came from him,(supposed fact) he could pass on defects in his genes to all humans and we could all be "imperfect".this we could call logical.. a watchtower belief that lacks logic is for example jw's who go through armageddon or die and are ressurected to earth are not perfect but still have another test to go through, yet those who die and that go to heaven are perfect straight away and require no further testing.. so which teachings are based on beliefs that are not true and which ones are just not logical?
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hillbilly
Heathen-- thats the way I understand what I've been told. The fact is the whole judical system they use is wishy washy.
They make what they do fit the circumstances they are in at the time. And Never, never make the mistake of confusing a Elder with the "facts" in any matter they investigate. And never try to read THEM a direct quote from the WATCHTOWER about how their system should work.
Sorry boys- If your boss gives you marching orders (FLOCK BOOK) you are obligated to use them-----"Rules of Engagment" so to speak... Levels the playing feild for all parties.... besides if you follow the BIBLE you know that this process isnt to "convict" or shun but to recover ones soul or spirit....
Watchtower Teachings eh? Don't get me started on doctrin, dogma or twisted scritpure......that dont make sense. "BLOOD" in componets its fine--take it whole without a court battle and God will Kill ya after we decide you dont want to be a JW anyway (the remote control, "well thats we thought you wanted", DA process)
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What DO You Know Now That You Didn't Before?
by minimus insince you drifted or fell away from the "truth", what do you now know that you never realized before?
was there anything that shocked or surprised you about the witness religion that you didn't know about til you left??
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hillbilly
after many hours of study I know know that the answer to this liguistic problem
"I Oranges are orange, why arent banannas "Yellows"? Well Duh! got all screwed up at the Tower of Bable. (if any one see's a Freudian connection in my comment please let me know what it means)
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My New YEARS DEAL....
by hillbilly inhillbilly
re: what are you doing on new year's eve?
dec 31, 2002 10:03
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hillbilly
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Which Watchtower teachings lack logic?
by sleepy inwhich watchtower teachings lack logic?.
i know you're all tempted to say all of them, but some beliefs if the facts were true, would be logical.. which ones that are supposed to be a logical consequence of a true fact are in fact not logical whether the fact is true or not?.
for an example of logical belief based on untrue or unprovable fact , if god created adam and all humans came from him,(supposed fact) he could pass on defects in his genes to all humans and we could all be "imperfect".this we could call logical.. a watchtower belief that lacks logic is for example jw's who go through armageddon or die and are ressurected to earth are not perfect but still have another test to go through, yet those who die and that go to heaven are perfect straight away and require no further testing.. so which teachings are based on beliefs that are not true and which ones are just not logical?
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hillbilly
The miss- application of the principles in Matt 18 . They wont accept forensics as a "second witness". This not only applies to sex crimes .
Lets say you are receive a warning letter (or cease and desist type order) from a Bro or Sister, through a lawyer or court. And you know that this is just a ploy or some legal wrangling this person is using to keep you off balance. You have done nothing to warrent a Civil warning.
So you take it for what it's worth from "Ceasar". Now the person who requested this order will have you arrested if you try to approach them about the Order or anything else. They have shunted your ability to "gain" them back using Bible principles.
Plus, the person requesting the Order has essentially lied to get the order, and caused you to be in bad light by advising others about it's existence.
Now in my mind we have a situation where one that would require this to be aired out to the "older men".
This is were the WT Logic looses me.
SO- you request a meeting with the brothers and the accuser . The Elder's refuse to call the other person to the meeting? Why? YOU can't produce "two witnesses". "To what", you ask, "The fact that I don't deserve a letter, or that I've been falsly accused using the mechanisms of "Ceasar" by a Spritual sibling?"
"Can YOU prove you didnt do what the legal document warns you off? Do you have two witness that will state that you didnt do "x,y or z"
"No", you say, " The issue is that this person asked for this legal document against me. This is an accusation by implication"
"Well do you have two witnesses" says the Sheperd. "To what- the point is by requesting a lawyer and judge to produce this document against me, with out any substantiotion or discusion with me this person has wrondged me by manipulation of the legal system" To which he replies " True, but we are not discussing a civil matter."
Of course you may know that this will continue into a never ending circle by know.
The issue is that the document itself is the "two witnesses" the person had to instigate it by asking a legal representives to prepare and process it. Even a "warning letter' from a parties lawyer involves the act of asking for it (and if its based on a false asking for it is a Lie).
Bottom line-- Logic is a relative thing
God is a God of Order.... the WT has even ( in their defence) allowed a system that could work on occasion. The Problem is the MEN who are placed in power by the PUBLISHING Company do not Minister to the sheep. THE Watchtower system corrupts the word of God- MT 18 is not to judge or convict to to adjust the thinking of an erring one. THE Watchtower "Logic" allows MEN who dont really understand Jesus' ransom to convict and if they can't get a "slam dunk" they tell you to "let god handle it".
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33
What Are You Doing On New Year's Eve?
by minimus ingot any big plans?
i plan on going in the big city til the wee hours of new years day.....and you??
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hillbilly
Never been a big party hound so the big bashes don't draw me in.
But I do have a years end Ritual I started in 1999-2000
I ride a horse on New Years Eve Day and on New Years Day. I started doing this on purpose for "Y2K". I plan to do this on New Years till I cant "fork" a saddle then I will drive a team and wagon. (or ride in it)
Other than a few working Cowboys and mounted unit police I am sure that I am one of the few folks on the planet who have been horseback in two Millinieums, or 2 centuries.
Why? I realized that horses and the relationship they have to human history is a grand thing. In '99 I realized that by 1899 the Frontier was "closed" and the death knell for the horse as a working tool and partner had been sounded. How many people using horses in 1899-1900 really knew that in 40 or 50 years society would loose the daily contact with man's partner for so many centuries? My family has had connectons with the horse for years.
Farmers, Cavalry, Ranching......My great grandad was in the business of buying and selling teams for delivery work till the horse was obselete in out area-- the 1930's. My grandmother rode saddle horse in the auctions ring as a girl. It skipped a generation but I carry the equine gene in my line to this day and have passed it to my son.
So some time this afternoon I will throw a saddle on my old paint gelding and we will check fence for a hour or so. I could do this with the pick up but I won't. Same tommorow. My horse knows what this is about. He knows that he and I honor the past doing this. He ( and most horses kept other than Lawn Ornaments) well, you can all feel them swell with pride under saddle when they partner with you.
Dogs may be man's best freind.... but the horse as a partner is a lynchpin in human history.
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How was it for you?
by ozziepost inwith 2002 almost consigned to history, how was it for you?
how would you sum up your 2002?
nah, this isn't a poll; we do those on the weekends!!
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hillbilly
well some good some bad
wife decides to divorce me with no discussion or marriage counciling at all- good or bad? I suppose we will find out. Even though her elders have done nothing on my behalf in the situation ( she's active, I'm not) I guess the good is I have a another greivance against the WT and there screwed up version of "shepeherds".
The elder that I finally contacted about this ( I felt my side should be heard) has told me twice that , in his opinion, she has serious emotional problems (yea sherlock, me and the therapist I spoke with about her said the same thing) but "they cant force her to do anything" he also tells me that he expects her to drift out of the truth as soon as the next year. some ministers to the flock of god eh?
I get my son out of this- good- he wont become a JW on my account now- Bad- he has to deal with the crisis of divorce in his family good- I get to help him not be bitter
work- good- raises and more clout- living the dream
2002 is a damned Milestone year in my life
"Andy Hardy" said that picking up all these Milestones could get a little heavy in to Barymore in one of those old Micky Rooney movies. That line has stuck with me since I saw that movie as a kid. I wonder why?
ALL GOOD- I met a lot of loving and supportive folks here at JWD. God bless each and every one!
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Why on earth do boys..............................
by Jesika inthink that farting and burping are sooooooooo funny????????
my son will be 9 in jan and my bf's nephew is the same age only 2 weeks later than my son's birthday.
my son (jessie) and chris (the nephew) stayed over for a couple days.
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hillbilly
ahhh-- they do it because "they can"..... it's a man thing.
Hill-- ya' know why farts smell?
Jessika- I don't know, why?
Hill- so deaf folks (sorry Yiz) can enjoy them too
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Lineman- Can we swing by the gas station on the way to the job boss?
Line Foreman- Why?
Lineman- I have to take a dump
Line Forman- sorry- just work it out in farts.
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HB ( gender confused cause he doesn't fart enough class)
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A hard question to answer?????????
by Jesika ini was in chat early this morning with country girl and she posed a ?
i found kinda hard to answer................ .
i had to really think hard to answer this question.
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hillbilly
Hmmmn... what Do I like about myself. I find that some of my best qualities cause me problems from time to time.
1 Honesty- Yes, I am honest. I do not intentionally mislead people fo my advantage. However I try not to be "brutally Honest" when dealing with people based on my opinions of them . I will call an ugly woman "handsome" , if pressed, for example.
2 Moral- Yes, I am a Moral Person."Morals" as a catagory paints the canvas with a broad brush. For me it means not "using" people to my advantage.
3. I see all sides of an argument or issue. I may not agree with you or follow you but I have a real talent to "see" both sides of an argument. However, after investigation, when my mind is made up it takes a lot to move my position.
4 Humility- Not the kind of "humility" the Society expects. Many people confuse "humility" with "pushover". If I am wrong reason with me. Humility guides my personal style, example: I rarely have to "tell" anyone to do anything (even folks I have authority over). Ask first, try to empower the other guy and build concensus is a mark of Humility.
5 Firmness- after it's all said and done- I am firm. To me Firmness is allowed as long as 1-4 have been used to get to that point. I do reserve the right to have expectations of those around me. and If those folks push the bounds or dont honor those expectations I will ask them to change or leave.
The first 5 don't give me many problems.
6 Uncanny knack for sizing up people of situations- I really like this about my self. I usually have a neutral or better opinion obout most folks or proposals. Some people set off big red flags with me- and as much as I hate to be judgemental I have been 99% right in following my gut about these folks. The up side is I am real hard to "con" the down side is I struggle hoping I dont screen things to fast sometimes. I can process a lot of information on my feet and come to conclusions and solutions. Works great for me at work- but sometimes in other venues I have to really shut up and let others catch up. I'm not a brainiac but I see details and the big picture equally well and I observe things others miss- sometimes that makes me "look" smart and puts people off.
7 I dont get excited - This is one I really like about me- but I causes problems from time to time. The bigger the crisis the calmer I get. Especially if the situation is one I am "detached" from. Car wrecks, downed and broken Power Lines, water in the basement-no problem: Let's Roll and fix it. Not perfect though- kids or close personal situations take me a long time to get my mind around. I get pretty hyper when it's people I care about.
The down side to this is I just dont show a lot of emotion about many things. "lets go do this or that"- "sure". I am happy to do it but I just am not a "cheerleader". I am very happy watching others be happy. I don't need a lot of stimulation to feel alive. I come off as "boring" to alot of people.
8 Loyal- yep, but screw me once shame on me, twice shame on you. I don't confuse "loyalty" with doormat. Sometimes making the had choice about someone is the loyalist thing to do.
9 Fair- I am fair and don't like folks who are not. This one gets me in trouble from time to time - Even though I size up quickly, if a person gets in my circle and we have friction I will listen and work and reason with them. But I have found that many people out there can't have a fair discussion about many things. I don't like it, but I wish I was better at a little "pre emptive emotional blackmail" some times. I observe others who use it sucessfully in situations. I have to ask is that a bad thing?
10 Loving-- a broad word. I love mankind and the people close to me. 1-9 tend to upset many people I love. I hope that my ability to love always grows.
Well I sure aint perfect. And I don't try to be. I am a Human trying to accept Christ's Sacrifices for my sins. But most important I think everyone else needs the space to reconcile there life's through their belief system.
HB (of the 1-10 list made me a real "bad" JW class)