Posts by hooberus

15

Jesus death

by lime05 in

jw
friends

did jehovah know that jesus was going to die before he sent him to earth or is that just the way events unfolded.

it sounds a bit mad sending your only begotten son to earth as a perfect baby knowing that later in life he would be nailed and toutured on a stake because jehovahs's principles of justice requires a soul for a soul

hooberus

However, if we take your Biblical explanation of things to it's conclusion, in the end most of your gods children will be killed, or eternally punished by his hand. This, is clearly not love, but rather it's antithesis. As humans, we lock people away in prisons for the criminally insane for such acts; and rightly so.

Actually the Bible teaches that we are by nature "the children of wrath", not God's children.

Ephesians 2

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

(See also Colossians 1:21). However despite this the good news is that:

Ephesians 2 (continued)

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Romans 5:8-10

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13

10

Biblical Unitarians?

by serendipity in

jw
friends

does anyone have any experience or knowledge of biblical unitarians?

i've looked at their website and was surprised at how many beliefs they have in common with jws.

they seem to be kind of like bible students without the wacky pyramid stuff and the dates.

hooberus

There is a popular website that has advertsies on many forums including here and e-bay. This group is called "Biblical Unitarians" I believe that they are associated with "Christian Educational Services"

I believe that there are several problems with the beliefs of this group.

Not only do they deny that Jesus existed as God (Micah 5:2) before he was born to Mary, but they deny that he personally "existed" at all in any form before being born to Mary. Even the Watchtower admits that Jesus pre-existed his being born to mary (though they believe that He was an angel.)

The following is from the "Biblical Unitarians" site:

"There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the mind of God as God’s plan for the redemption of man."

5

PANDAS, PEOPLE, AND 'INTELLIGENT DESIGN"

by Reluctant Buddha in

of pandas and people by percival davis.

56 of 66 people found the following review helpful:no actual science to be found here!, december 20, 2005. reviewer:"satan claws' (hell, michigan) note: i gave this book, of pandas and people by percival davis, one star because the amazon software does not allow me to give it no stars.

as to "intelligent design" being taught in the classrooms of america, i have this good news: .

hooberus

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2101 http://www.epsociety.org/p%20517-519.pdf http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/189.asp

69

Gaps in Fossil Record Disprove Evolution? What about Gaps in Creationism?

by Reluctant Buddha in

missing links disprove a theory???.

what about this one, creationists!!!.

real t-rex .

hooberus

While not yet a full-blown believer in evolution I am rapidly coming around to that point of view. A trip to the Grand Canyon also helped me.

stillajwexelder, If you like I'll give you a copy of the below book on this subject (its Christmas).

http://www.icr.org/store/index.php?main_page=pubs_product_book_info&manufacturers_id=&products_id=2214

31

Mormons celebrate 200 years

by oldflame in

joseph smith founded the church in 1830, 10 years after he claimed to experience a vision of god and jesus in a grove of trees near his family home in palmyra, n.y. he also said an angel named moroni led him to a set of buried gold plates that contained the ancient records of christ's dealings with the inhabitants of the americas.

smith's translation of the plates became known as the book of mormon, the text on which mormons base their religion.. smith's original church had just six members, mostly his family, and only 5,000 copies of the book of mormon were published at first.

he sent out a handful of missionaries.. today mormonism has more than 12 million members half of them outside the united states.

hooberus

I handed out christain literature to LDS people this summer at Nauvoo Illinois during their pageant celebration of the 200th year since the birth of Joseph Smith. I also attended a LDS reading of the King Follett Discourse by the actor playing Jeseph Smith in the pageant. I followed along with the copy of the discourse in the LDS Church's Joseph Smith History book. While the whole sermon was condensed somewhat the controversial parts of the sermon (ie: Smith's teaching that God the Father was not always God- but instead that He was once a man, etc.) were virtually all omitted. For the complete sermon see:

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/kingfolletsermon.htm

11

Was Jesus the Christ even at birth? - not according to the Watchtower

by hooberus in

the watchtower claims that jesus was not the christ at his birth but instead that he did not become the christ until the time of his baptism:.

"not at birth, but at thirty years of age jesus became christ .

" things in which it is impossible for god to lie p. 211. what does the bible say: .

hooberus

The watchtower claims that Jesus was not the Christ at his birth but instead that he did not become the Christ until the time of his baptism:

"Not at birth, but at thirty years of age Jesus became Christ . . . " Things In Which It Is Impossible For God To Lie p. 211

What does the Bible say:

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Matthew 1:18

"And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born." Matthew 2:4

"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." Luke 2:11

"And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law," Luke 2:26-27

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;" Romans 1:1-3

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." Romans 9:3-5

"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10: 1-4

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." 1 Timothy 1:15

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why they reject any celebration of Christmas.

32

Myths of the 'scientific method' exposed

by Shining One in

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1222/p09s02-coop.html?s=u .

an excerpt from the article: .

"science employs the scientific method.

hooberus

So the T-rex and Brontosauraus sinned -sorry hooberus I am sat here laughing my f----g ass off - you guys are good entertainment -next you will be telling me Noah took 850,000 male and female pairs of insects into the ark

My point was that the consequences of mans sin is what resulted in death into the entire world. For the "850,000" claim see: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp

32

Myths of the 'scientific method' exposed

by Shining One in

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1222/p09s02-coop.html?s=u .

an excerpt from the article: .

"science employs the scientific method.

hooberus

A man builds 100 houses in his lifetime. He tears down the ones he doesn't like as he goes , continuing to build new ones until he has only 5 left, then how intelligent is he? Well, that is what ID is saying G-d has done, since G-d is responsible for all life.- think about this: 95% of all life species that ever existed are now extinct. Based on past practice, how much longer do we have before we are replaced by a better model?

If by "G-d" you were referring to the God of the Bible (you used the capitalized "G" and a singular ending) then any extinction that has occurred was not caused by original design, but instead by the entrance of sin into the world and the resulting death. See below link for more information on this as well as for the creationist explanation for the fossil record:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/pbs_nova/0927ep3.asp

5

PANDAS, PEOPLE, AND 'INTELLIGENT DESIGN"

by Reluctant Buddha in

of pandas and people by percival davis.

56 of 66 people found the following review helpful:no actual science to be found here!, december 20, 2005. reviewer:"satan claws' (hell, michigan) note: i gave this book, of pandas and people by percival davis, one star because the amazon software does not allow me to give it no stars.

as to "intelligent design" being taught in the classrooms of america, i have this good news: .

hooberus

Interestingly one of the authors of "Of Pandas and People: The Central Question of Biological Origins." is Dean Kenyon who was once a prominent evolutionist (author of of "Biochemical Predestination").

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&isFellow=true&id=89

Now he is a creationist. For some of his testimony/reasons see the introducion to the book "What is Creation Science" by Morris and Parker available from http://www.icr.org

32

Myths of the 'scientific method' exposed

by Shining One in

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1222/p09s02-coop.html?s=u .

an excerpt from the article: .

"science employs the scientific method.

hooberus

The point of the article is that whether or not Intelligent Design is a science or not (that is, regardless of which category we place the idea), it is a poor explanation for the natural world in any case.

There are qualified scientists who disagree- take for example vision from photoreceptors.* I think that it is a poor explanation to invoke unintelligent natural fores for the origin of such things even once- let alone numerous times (neo-darwinian evolution requires that photoreceptors would have had to have evolved independently by unintelligent, non predetermined factors at least 40-60 times).

However, I disagree with the author's position that it is difficult to define what is and is not science. There is one very basic requirement: a science must make specific, falsifiable predictions about the natural world. Intelligent Design does not. It cannot be called a science because it doesn't do what sciences do.

This (oft repeated) claim is simply false. Here is a specific falsifiable prediction (paraphrased from ReMine's The Biotic Message): "An intelligent designer is necessary for the origin of biological life from non-life."

It is potentiallly falsifiable by demonstrating that unintelligent natural forces are sufficient to produce biological life from non-life. Similar predictive statements can also be extended to things such as the origin of biological structures, predictive non-evolutionary fossil trends, etc.

* For example the following is a brief description of what is involved in obtaining vision from one componet (photoreceptor) of even "simple" eyes (It can be verified by comparing it with a college level biology textbook). Keep in mind that photoreceptors are reqired for even the simplest eyes, and also the below treatment does not discuss the complexity of the sub-compontets named (ie: rhodopsin) etc. source (http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=51)

Here is a brief overview of the biochemistry of vision. When light first strikes the retina, a photon interacts with a molecule called 11-cis-retinal, which rearranges within picoseconds to trans-retinal. The change in the shape of retinal forces a change in the shape of the protein, rhodopsin, to which the retinal is tightly bound. The protein's metamorphosis alters its behavior, making it stick to another protein called transducin. Before bumping into activated rhodopsin, transducin had tightly bound a small molecule called GDP. But when transducin interacts with activated rhodopsin, the GDP falls off and a molecule called GTP binds to transducin. (GTP is closely related to, but critically different from, GDP.)

GTP-transducin-activated rhodopsin now binds to a protein called phosphodiesterase, located in the inner membrane of the cell. When attached to activated rhodopsin and its entourage, the phosphodiesterase acquires the ability to chemically cut a molecule called cGMP (a chemical relative of both GDP and GTP). Initially there are a lot of cGMP molecules in the cell, but the phosphodiesterase lowers its concentration, like a pulled plug lowers the water level in a bathtub.

Another membrane protein that binds cGMP is called an ion channel. It acts as a gateway that regulates the number of sodium ions in the cell. Normally the ion channel allows sodium ions to flow into the cell, while a separate protein actively pumps them out again. The dual action of the ion channel and pump keeps the level of sodium ions in the cell within a narrow range. When the amount of cGMP is reduced because of cleavage by the phosphodiesterase, the ion channel closes, causing the cellular concentration of positively charged sodium ions to be reduced. This causes an imbalance of charge across the cell membrane which, finally, causes a current to be transmitted down the optic nerve to the brain. The result, when interpreted by the brain, is vision.