Posts by Slappy

19

Christianity..... do you have to believe...

by yknot in

do you have to believe in trinity, arianism, or other christ based concept etc to be saved?.

is believing jesus to be the messiah and following the model set forth in scripture enough?

or does one have to understand accurately the 'nature,essence, etc" of things..... if so why?

Slappy

But u r so going against the rules Deputy Dog. They can only ask us for proof. We're not allowed to ask them for proof. Don't u know the rules? :-p.

slappy

19

Christianity..... do you have to believe...

by yknot in

do you have to believe in trinity, arianism, or other christ based concept etc to be saved?.

is believing jesus to be the messiah and following the model set forth in scripture enough?

or does one have to understand accurately the 'nature,essence, etc" of things..... if so why?

Slappy

But u r so going against the rules Deputy Dog. They can only ask us for proof. We're not allowed to ask them for proof. Don't u know the rules? :-p.

slappy

13

How do I get past the fear?

by Quester55 in

i';ve been indoctrinated for a long time.

i have a residual fear that maybe, maybe, just maybe they (jw's) might be right.

but my logical mind says they are so far off into left.

...continued...

This may have been where I should have started the topic, but once I give an idea free-reign, I no longer have any sort of control over where my mind takes me. What I want to try to expound on is where 'fear' of man leads.

I know we are all aware, to some extent, of what is occuring in the world around us. Things are and have been detereorating for as long as we know, and they will continue to do so. Man is incapable of improving conditions. Even when man tries to and succeeds in improving one aspect of life, another aspect is adversely affected. Man is unable to see the consequences of his actions until after the action has taken place. "Because for every matter there is a time and judgment, though the misery of man increases greatly. For he does no know what will happen; so who can tell him when it will occur?" Ecclesiastes 8:6-7 "...no man knows what is to be; sho can tell him what will be after him? The labor of fools wearies them..." Ecclesiastes 10:14-15 In the long run, all of man's actions will have been for nought. Man is unable to save himself from...himself. For without God, man is a fool. "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good." Psalm 14:1 And as foolish, man does not know what is good and best for him. "There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." Proverbs 14:12

If man is so entirely helpless, why would we even think to fear such a pitiful creature? If we fear something that is so pathetic, what does that make us? Worse than pathetic! In order to fear something, that would mean that we place what we fear above and beyond what we are, else there would be no reason to fear it. How low of an opinion must we have of ourselves to actually fear man?! Also, God tells us plainly what comes of fearing man. "The fear of man brings a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe." Proverbs 29:25 "Fear and the pit and the snare are upon you...And it shall be that he who flees from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit, and he who comes up from the midst of the pit shall be caught in the snare..." Isaiah 24:17-18 Fearing man starts us down the wrong path, and as we continue down that path, things can, and will, only get worse for us.

There are examples around us everyday of what 'fear of man' leads to. Think of some past 'friends' that you had; I will, however, use myself as an example. Back in middle school, in order to be 'accepted' by my friends, I would be a part of something that I knew was wrong, but because of my desire to be liked by my friends I ignored my twinge of conscious and did whatever they did. At first they were little things, and as I realized that I could get away with them and how much 'fun' they were at the time, I gradually did worse and worse things as time went on. Thankfully I came to a point were God led me to realize that I had been deluding myself into thinking that all that I had been doing was fun when it really wasn't. I realized there was no point to living a life like that, for it was incredibly unfulfilling and it would eventually lead to heartache and loss. Which, when that happened, would then degrade me even more as I searched for something that could comfort me from that loss, thereby leading me further down that path of pointlessness. It is truly as Isaiah 24:17-18 says!

It was at this point in my life that I started to honestly read the Bible, not just the parts that I enjoyed--mainly because they didn't condemn my lifestyle. It was then that I realized how real and true the Bible is. God knows us inside and out. His Word is there to show us who and what we are without Him and what we can become with Him. If we would only take the Word and Truth of One who knows all, we would save ourselves a whole lot of grief. It is as Solomon says, "Who can know a thing?" Without God, we cannot know, and without that knowledge, we are helpless to do anything to change our circumstances. "I sought the Lord, and He heard me, and delivered me from all my fears." Psalm 34:4

So I ask again, why would we ever fear man? We have One who is far better and so much more worthy of our 'fear' that it can't even warrant a comparison. "Who is worthy...?" Revelation 5:2 "...'Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you...turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them...'" Acts 14:15 "For the Lord is great and greatly to be praised; He is to be feared above all..." Psalm 96:4

"In the fear of the Lord there is strong confidence, and His children will have a place of refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to turn one away from the snares of death." Proverbs 14:26-27

"The end of life is to be like God, and the soul following God will be like Him." -Socrates

13

How do I get past the fear?

by Quester55 in

i';ve been indoctrinated for a long time.

i have a residual fear that maybe, maybe, just maybe they (jw's) might be right.

but my logical mind says they are so far off into left.

Slappy

...continued...

We essentially have two choices, we either fear God, or we fear man. It is not possible to fully and truly fear both at the same time. "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Luke 16:13 Neither can we not serve either one. For Jesus said, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad." Matthew 12:30 We must either serve one or the other.

However, it is capable to fear a little of each, but if that is the case, then one is a very unsure and insecure person and is not happy with who one is and where one is in life. That person will always be assailed by doubt, and where doubt exists, peace and contentment cannot exist. Just reflect back on your own life if you will; recall a time when there was a doubt you had. How did it affect you? Were you happy? Or were you worried? Did you have trouble concentrating on other things? Found it difficult to sleep? I know that I am definitely not happy when I have doubts. In fact, those last three instances describe exactly what I go through when I have doubts. "Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life...because of the fear which terrifies your heart..." Deuteronomy 28:66-67

Whenever fear and doubts come upon me, I return always to God. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5 "Casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." 1 Peter 5:7 "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:7 In each instance, when I finally turn to God, my doubts disappear, and I am again happy.

However, notice that I have to turn to HIm. That must mean that somewhere along the way I had turned away from Him. For if I hadn't turned from Him, there would be no need to turn back to Him. Therefore, I must assume that the cause of my fears and doubts was the fact that I had turned away from God. I can only be truly happy when I stay focused on Christ and on living according to His will and His desire. "Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned..." Romans 14:22-23 "Happy is the man who is always reverent, But he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity." Proverbs 28:14 Remember, to 'fear God' is to 'revere God'.

"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Romans 15:13

...to be continued...

13

How do I get past the fear?

by Quester55 in

i';ve been indoctrinated for a long time.

i have a residual fear that maybe, maybe, just maybe they (jw's) might be right.

but my logical mind says they are so far off into left.

Slappy

Below is a little dissertation of sorts about fear that I posted on another forum. Hopefully it can help in small way, but I make no promises. I would also like to add that God is not a 'religion', God is a relationship, and we definitely do not need an organization to have that relationship. Anyway, below are my thoughts on fear, sorry it's so long. It'll actually be a couple posts; it won't let me post it all at once.

This is more or less my thoughts on fear. It's a subject that has been on my mind for the last few months or so and I'm finally getting around to organizing my thoughts all into one coherent work. (The terms 'organizing' and 'coherent' are open to debate however).

The word 'fear', as translated in the Bible, is mentioned around 500 times and has at least 20 different variations in the Hebrew and Greek.

Fear can have several different meanings. It is key to understand the context in which the word appears, for then one can understand what meaning of 'fear' is being applied. Fear is mostly used either in association with 'awe/reverance' of God, being 'afraid' of God's judgment/anger, or being 'afraid' of man.

The reason I have been thinking about fear, is that I have come to realize that by knowing Christ and being a Child of God, I have nothing to fear. "The Lord is on my side; I will not fear. What can man do to me?" Psalm 118:6 That is only one of several portions that make that statement. The point is that through knowing God and fearing (hold in reverance) Him, I know that nothing in this world can harm me. Being able to live a life without fear is incredible beyond description. I'm content, liberated, happy, and a host of other things that can only truly and fully come from the knowledge that is only available through Christ. "Oh, how great is Your goodness, which You have laid up for those who fear You, which You have prepared for those who trust in You in the presence of the sons of men!" Psalm 31:19

Some may make the comment that I am not living without fear because I still fear God. However, 'fear of God' just means that I revere Him. I don't 'fear' Him as in the normal sense of the word. Only the wicked and ungodly fear Him in that way. "Who knows the power of Your anger? For as the fear of You, so is Your wrath." Psalm 90:11 "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has the power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!" Luke 12:5 "And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the Lord..." 2 Chronicles 20:3 As a believer in Christ, I need no longer fear God in that way since, because of the sacrifice Jesus made to attone for my imperfect self and reconcile me back to God, God no longer has the power to cast me into Hell. Now, due to the absence of that fear, I am able to be thankful to Him and come into the true enjoyment of God's love and all that He has to offer. It is this love, by the way, that is the reason I have no fear. "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18

For another take on why I have no fear, look at it this way. We are told to fear God and God only. "For the Lord is great and greatly to be praised; He is also to be feared above all gods. For all the gods of the peoples are idols, But the Lord made the heavens." 1 Chronicles 16:25-26 Now we all have things we are 'afraid' of, whether it be heights, spiders, snakes, etc. So, for the sake of argument, lets say that I am afraid of heights and snakes. However, my fear of heights is greater than my fear of snakes. So if I'm up on a mountain ledge with a snake, what do you think will be occupying my mind? The snake, or the fact that I'm on a ledge that is very, very high and giving me some serious vertigo? Correct, my fear of heights will occupy my mind to such an extent that I will most likely forget that the snake is even there. This is the exact same thing that happens in our relationship with God. By fearing Him, the only one who is worthy of our fear as Joseph so eloquently put it, "...'Do not be afraid, for am I in the place of God?'" Genesis 50:19, our fear (reverance) is so great that all other fears become so miniscule in comparison that they cease to exist. So to paraphrase 1 John 4:18, God's love for us is so great and so perfect that when we come to know Him, we return that love, and that love overrides any fears we may have had previous to knowing God.

However, it is well to keep in mind that it is possible to know God through Christ, and still be fearful of His anger. However, that is only the case when we fall away from Him and live life according to our desires instead of His desires. He can no longer cast us into hell, but He can and will correct us in order to bring us back to Himself. And His corrections can sometimes be very painful, thereby making us fearful of them. (Read 2 Samuel chapters 11 & 12 to get one example of those 'corrections'.) But if we live by His Word and seek to follow and be like Him, we have nothing to fear. "In righteousness you shall be established; You shall be far from oppression, for you shall not fear, And from terror, for it shall not come near you." Isaiah 54:14

...to be continued...

11

Preaching to Mask Problems

by WTWizard in

i have noticed that the witlesses seem to have more success in scamming people that are having ongoing problems in their lives.

usually they have stagnant jobs, poverty, are having zero success with the opposite sex, or are having major issues with their health (especially mental health).

those people usually fall for the promises that said problems will be removed in the new dark ages, that the witlesses will take care of them, or both.. often, what will happen is that the person will become zealous in studying.

Slappy

Right on. I will ask one question though. What is the main reason people join cults or gangs? I'm quite sure Wiz's post is the dead-on answer.

34

Bible study with PO/sister and wife, did not go well......

by insearchoftruth in

last night....did not go well at all, at least in my opinion.

i feel that the sister from her conversations with my wife started on a quite defensive mode....did my best to stay level headed, but i know there were times i was frustrated, and it showed.. .

the husband and wife were about 40 minutes late, due to traffic, and they were not prepared to discuss michael/jesus, and with respect to the doctrine change, he merely provided me a 1995 and 1997 wt article, when he and i spoke on the phone, he said he was going to show me in the bible, he sort of danced around this a lot, but not to my satisfaction.. .

Slappy

If you need a defense to keep the JWs from attacking you (too much that is) and to give your wife reason to bear with your unwillingness to fall in to such nonsense like a little kid, use Acts 17:11 "These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out wheter these things were so [true]." That's always been a favorite portion of mine, because it says quite plainly that we aren't to take things at face-value like JWs think we should. We have to go find those things for ourselves; only then can they be truly real to us. And that is what you're trying to do, is it not. Well, except for the small fact that you know 'bull' when you see it, so you're a step or two ahead. Also, the fact that it says 'searched the Scriptures daily will support you insistance on using only the Bible. For that is all they had back in those days. No Watchtower, no 'literature' of dubious origins, etc.

slappy

34

Bible study with PO/sister and wife, did not go well......

by insearchoftruth in

last night....did not go well at all, at least in my opinion.

i feel that the sister from her conversations with my wife started on a quite defensive mode....did my best to stay level headed, but i know there were times i was frustrated, and it showed.. .

the husband and wife were about 40 minutes late, due to traffic, and they were not prepared to discuss michael/jesus, and with respect to the doctrine change, he merely provided me a 1995 and 1997 wt article, when he and i spoke on the phone, he said he was going to show me in the bible, he sort of danced around this a lot, but not to my satisfaction.. .

Slappy

What shawn says is all good and well, but you have to be careful that if you do start 'courting' back, it shouldn't look like you're doing it just because of the JWs. You know your wife, and you know how she'll react, so if she doesn't particularly care that it's obvious that you are only paying extreme attention to her in order to combat the JWs, then go for it. But if she understands what you're trying to do, then it may push her farther toward the JWs.

However, as was someone else mentioned, you can't meet them on their grounds; it's the whole 'argue with an idiot' thing. It might be good to pick a topic that you know where the JWs are in direct contradiction with the Bible, or cannot talk their way around, and get your wife interested in that topic. Then when the JWs show up for a study, throw that topic at them and keep it there the entire night.

Or, you could always use the truth with your wife. Plead with her that you don't want to lose her, that you love her and that you don't want your relationship and her life to be completely ruined and torn to shreds because of the JWs. Tell her that you will not follow her into the lion's den; just because she likes what she hears from the JWs doesn't mean you have to. She should understand that. Let her know that if she continues down that path, what will happen to her as long as you remain a devil. It seems that you honestly care, as any husband should, about her and the relationship you two share. Let her see that, the least it can do is give her a sieve of sorts to strain the JW teachings instead of soaking it up like a sponge. May God be your guide in all this.

slappy

34

Bible study with PO/sister and wife, did not go well......

by insearchoftruth in

last night....did not go well at all, at least in my opinion.

i feel that the sister from her conversations with my wife started on a quite defensive mode....did my best to stay level headed, but i know there were times i was frustrated, and it showed.. .

the husband and wife were about 40 minutes late, due to traffic, and they were not prepared to discuss michael/jesus, and with respect to the doctrine change, he merely provided me a 1995 and 1997 wt article, when he and i spoke on the phone, he said he was going to show me in the bible, he sort of danced around this a lot, but not to my satisfaction.. .

Slappy

I know I mentioned this previous, but I'll mention it again. Ask them if we are to strive to be like God? It's mentioned several times in the Bible. "Be holy as I am holy" and "Be perfect as I am perfect". If they agree to that, then point out that God is unchanging, "the same yesterday, today, and forever." God is! Remember that, God says "I am". Notice the tense. Not I was, or I will be, but "I AM". I've never really thought a whole lot about those two words, but I'm starting to understand their significance. So if a Spirit directed organization (Holy Spirit is God) then how can they say that they follow an unchanging God, when they themselves are changing?

Granted, as some others have mentioned, it's near hopeless to argue any sort of doctrinal point with JWs since, as a cult, they are conditioned for most anything and everything. Remember, you can't argue with an idiot, he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

As for how to handle your wife, I can't say much seeing as how I'm not married, but I do have one idea. Do the two of you have your own bible studies? Try it. 1 John is always a good study IMO. There is so much emotion contained within that letter as John lays out the truth that one can't help but be drawn in.

Also, don't ever underestimate the power of prayer. That is in a 'trinity' of it's own when one is searching for the truth. The 3-legs, IMO, are Study, Prayer, and Application.

Sry this is disjointed, gotta rush

bk

4

How might this affect "apostates"and other truth seakers?

by cameo-d in

this is from article:.

defamation of religion the new international legal craze?

"is liability for defamation of religion catching on?

Slappy

Wow, that's more a less a cease-fire being forced on all religions? It sounds like some religious po-dunk got tired of not being able to refute the many glaring problems in his relgion and is looking for an easy way out. Good luck on it actually working. There's a reason our forefathers wanted to keep religion separate from state...some people are really good at ignoring the wisdom of others. By bringing the 'state' to 'religion', they will no longer be separate, and whenever you bring 'religion' into something it takes over and throws common sense a lot further out the window than any stupid law made by the state. Lol, the one thing it's trying to stop will be the one thing that will actually be accelerated; all hell will break loose.

Maybe if one plays a well thought out game of semantics we will be able to differentiate between a 'cult' and a 'religion'. Maybe one truly brilliant individual will be able to show that all 'religions' are 'cults' in disguise and blow this motion out of the water? Now that would be something.

Now who wants to play a game of prophecy? This is the beginning of Babylon (that is the symbol of a world religion right?) and all hell breaking loose as a result is the fiery destruction that will come upon us. The end is near! Doom and destruction, death and hades, beer and vicodin...huh?

Lmao...sorry, I shouldn't be doing anything when I'm this tired, I get a little...sarcastic? facetious? stupid?? ridiculous? all of the above?

slappy