Posts by hybridous

72

Waking up - introduction

by Dreamerdude in

i am a male, born into the jw cult(ure), baptized as a teen, now mid fifties.

most of my life i dreamed of hugging pandas and lions, punctuated at times by nightmares of armageddon or jw drama and politics.

still going through the motions for still-in wife.

Glad to have you here and thanks for stepping out of the shadows to talk.

You seem to have laid some solid groundwork for yourself. Please, do not allow yourself to feel rushed, and do not put your wife (or yourself) under pressure to renounce the JW religion and just leave. As you know, a person must reach the satisfaction of their own conclusions regarding these matters. Tread lightly and feed your relationship.

I am glad to hear you mention Farkel. He had really taken some time to indulge me in conversation that was very valuable to me. He was instrumental in helping me stay on the rails, even as I left the JW cult in an abrupt and furious manner. He was extraordinarily kind to this dumb kid, and for that I will be eternally grateful.

Look forward to hearing what you have to say.

15

Higher Education - is it really the end of the WT?

by OutsiderLookingIn in

as a non-jw, before i started looking into things, i must say i only encountered intelligent jws.

so i was quite surprised to read here and in the pew report about their low overall educational achievement.

granted, my exposure was limited (less than a handful of people over a lifetime) but i met two of them in post-college education (graduate school) at a very good school.

hybridous

Like the OP, my own experience belies the general trend.

My parents had 3 kids, all born/raised in the WT cult religion. All 3 of us graduated from college. I am the only one out of the WT cult religion. One of my siblings has a graduate degree. Did that valuable graduate degree help my sibling to really question our upbringing and indoctrination? Did it really help in vetting the ideas and prejudices foisted onto us by our parents and their peers?

No. Not that I've evidence of such, anyways.

I believe OEJ gives a good analysis in citing the power of immersion. I think my mom (despite being a fan of college), doubled down on the 'immersion' so as not to have her kids walk away despite the education. I found it suffocating. My siblings conceded. My mom's strategy was 2/3 effective.

Another family from the hall had 2 young sisters. One was academically inclined, very smart & studious. The other one -ahem- academically 'contraindicated', shall-we-say...? Well. the smart one went to college, graduated, got a high-paying professional job, and is still a devout JW. The other one barely graduated high school, drifted through an assortment of menial jobs, and finally became an entrepreneur of sorts. I believe she finally carved out a modicum of success for herself, and..oh, yes...this is the one that exited the JW cult religion.

Another case, I would say, where the mom was an absolute nutcase & tyrant. Total 'immersion' (haha). One person finds it intolerable, and another is broken. Who can predict these things?

Anecdotes aside, I have no doubt that the general trend is true. Religiosity wanes while education waxes.

Just kinda wish my family wasn't so much an outlier...

35

what do you think is the main reason why so many young ones are waking up?

by Crazyguy in

seems as though the number of baptisms even for the young ones is down from what people report here.

at my former hall the young ones are all in totally sheltered even while going to school.

expressing thier desires to pioneer etc.

hybridous

Good comment above by sir,

When a young kid in the JW religion tries to extrapolate their life, what conclusions can they make?

If this religious nonsense is making you miserable at 10, how will you feel after investing another 1/2 century into it?

It is a very powerful thing to be able to express your doubts and have them confirmed.

To know you're not the only one having them. To know there are indeed some very good reasons you're harboring doubts then way you do.

And then, someone a little further ahead of you on the curve says 'I know how you feel...I've learned 'this', and 'THIS', and 'that'...'

And then it's only a matter of time...

33

Where and What. . . IS THE EVIDENCE for "Mental ILLNESS"? ? ?

by Terry in

jw
friends

i have no interest whatsoever in stirring up controversy.. in fact, i find clashes of opinion to be debilitatingly negative.. so, i'd simply like to request that we narrow this discussion to evidence.. please watch this video which is tantalizingly titled :.

"there's no such thing as mental illness".. consider this data and listen to the presentation of cause vs. effects and give me your analysis and any evidence for conclusions you may draw.

we all have anecdotal tendencies, but i should remind you, anecdotal testimony isn't evidence, only opinion.________________________________________.

hybridous

Hi Terry, and thanx for posting. I did watch/listen to the video and found it useful more for the questions it raised than those it answered.

In summary, I can tell you that that whatever destructive, dysfunctional behaviour present in my family observed over the years was constantly, in some WAY, SHAPE, of FORM incentivised and exascerbated by the JW religion. I have certifiable, mentally ill folks in my family, and I can testify that the JW religion played at least a necessary (if not sufficient) role in these poor outcomes.

And really, what could we expect from a wholesale rejection of reality in favor of a fiction?

The people in question never did undergo counseling; were medicated instead.

I suffered an abusive, born-in childhood, and suffered greatly, until I got counseling. I purposely sought a non-medicinal course of treatment, because I was leery of taking on a problem as I discarded another one.

I do realize that 'your mileage may vary' and I do not aim to suggest to anyone else a correct course of action to alleviate whatever their problems are. I figure that when it comes to this stuff, we all will do what we must.

33

Where and What. . . IS THE EVIDENCE for "Mental ILLNESS"? ? ?

by Terry in

jw
friends

i have no interest whatsoever in stirring up controversy.. in fact, i find clashes of opinion to be debilitatingly negative.. so, i'd simply like to request that we narrow this discussion to evidence.. please watch this video which is tantalizingly titled :.

"there's no such thing as mental illness".. consider this data and listen to the presentation of cause vs. effects and give me your analysis and any evidence for conclusions you may draw.

we all have anecdotal tendencies, but i should remind you, anecdotal testimony isn't evidence, only opinion.________________________________________.

hybridous

17

Is reasoning with a JW the answer?

by Saved_JW in

when i first left the watchtower society, i can remember being very eager to learn new information, especially information which pertained to discrediting the watchtower organization.

i called it "the cage stage" .

this excitement and newfound change in worldview completely rocked my world.

hybridous

'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
- Thomas Paine

Good OP. I like this stuff. Not that it's helped me 'rescue' one family member in. But it's edifying, and serves (to some extent) in smoothing out some rough edges when dealing with JW family. To know them, know their motivations; their fears. This can be useful.

I've largely given up on trying to reason with JWs. One cannot reason them out of beliefs they did not reason themselves into at the start. It helps to know the family history. How some simple-minded and gullible people got scared, and foisted nonsense onto their kids, who didn't know anything else. And 2 generations later, here we are.

I like your closing remarks about being someone who cares - the 'safety net'. I'm maintaining contact with the family for just that purpose. It's hard to do this, while having no expectations at all that it will be used.

113

I just found out that my youngest brother committed suicide

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

my middle brother called me a couple of hours ago.

our youngest brother, josh, who was 38, was found by his friends in his apartment.

he hung himself.

hybridous

So sorry to hear, Snakes.

I've lost a friend that way. One that was closer then my real brother. It was part of a life-changing year for me.

You honor us by sharing your burden of grief. I'm glad you have found people to share it with.

35

No Kingdom Halls would definitely work!

by John Aquila in

last night we were invited to a get-together with quite a few heavies attendingelders and regular pioneers.

there was beer and later some music.

everyone got relaxed and let down their guard and starting talking all kinds of non-theocratic stuff that you only discuss after a few beers.

hybridous

Interesting OP,

I presume that the one major obstacle to overcome would be the 'hardliners' in the ORG that would balk at the potential loss of control.

Reformers gotta figure out how to frame the narrative. Hardliners actually could be costing the ORG money and threatening its survivability. Hardliners 'out' for the sake of God's Organization. It's all in the presentation.

23

WT is a human rights violator according to the definition of state.gov and USA law - time for us to start putting pressure in lawmakers!

by EndofMysteries in

religious freedom taken from http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper.

quotingdirectly from the article...."it is the responsibility of governments to safeguard universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to life and the freedom of conscience, belief, practice, worship, and to explain and change ones faith.........people cannot enjoy religious freedom unless they have both the right to express their beliefs freely and change their religion without facing persecution, violence, or discrimination.... (ask yourself if the wt article i'm quoting next is allowing the freedom to change religion without discrimination and persecution.

so with that being said.....is the wt protecting religious freedom?

hybridous

Sparrow,

Don't forget money. They care about that, too. So all we need is a high-powered lobbying group to apply some pressure.

Of course, that'll take money, too. My wallet will be closed. I don't think I'm gonna spend money to leverage myself into the lives of people that don't really want me there in the first place...

23

WT is a human rights violator according to the definition of state.gov and USA law - time for us to start putting pressure in lawmakers!

by EndofMysteries in

religious freedom taken from http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/religiousfreedom/index.htm#wrapper.

quotingdirectly from the article...."it is the responsibility of governments to safeguard universal human rights and fundamental freedoms, including the right to life and the freedom of conscience, belief, practice, worship, and to explain and change ones faith.........people cannot enjoy religious freedom unless they have both the right to express their beliefs freely and change their religion without facing persecution, violence, or discrimination.... (ask yourself if the wt article i'm quoting next is allowing the freedom to change religion without discrimination and persecution.

so with that being said.....is the wt protecting religious freedom?

hybridous

No piece of legislation, no decree of the king, can undo what has been done and mend broken relationships.

Even if you got your laws in place, true-believers are going to know the score, and keep you at arms length.

They might not outright 'shun' you, but the relationship will not be restored to the original conditions present when you were a WT adherent.

They will always see you as having something 'wrong' with you.

Because they decided that WT opinions are most important of all. Even more important than their own. What can you do for people who abdicate the use of reason?

Not trying to minimize the pain that shunning can bring. I've felt it myself. Most of us here have. But it's a decision they make, and must own themselves.