Posts by MadGiant

130

Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

by exWTslave in

atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

MadGiant

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. - Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. - Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman

During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world. - Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being. - Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2

130

Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

by exWTslave in

atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

MadGiant

"Good point, the way I see it is in guided processes and evolution. God as the creator is the spark, beauty and pleasure are the result of guided processes, suffering and deformaties are a result of evolution left to it's own devices in unguided formations of nature. Similar to wear and tear of manmade objects. Eventually there will be a flaw in the process." - Kate

This is a contradiction. This argument just make god, any god completely redundant.

Ismael

130

Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

by exWTslave in

atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

MadGiant

"If evil and suffering exist, it only shows evil and suffering exist--that's all, it will not prove God does not exist." - Ex
"If evil and suffering exist, it proves man has chosen evil and its resultant suffering! He is not in the habit of learning from experience--his or of others. Otherwise things such as anger and alcohol .... would have long disappeared from the surface of the earth. Because things such as them prove more mischievous than the things one is angry about, or grapples with." - Ex

Sorry, my friend, but this is not an argument, it doesn't establish that god exist either. Applying this argument to actual examples of evil results in really bizarre statements. If someone murders a man's wife, you would tell him that his wife did not experience evil, she just experienced a temporary lack of (what?), while the killer was stabbing her with a knife. Nevertheless, the man still experiences suffering and his wife is dead, regardless of how you describe this event (god, no god, evil, no evil). If real, an omnibenevolentt dog would not absent himself/herself in ways that cause or allow suffering.

One doesn't even need examples to show the oddity. Applying this line at a conceptual level is sufficient. If evil is the relative lack of god's inclusion in a situation, then what is the baseline? How much light do we need to see? How much heat do we need to feel warm? How much Dog do we need to be good?

You are avoiding facing the fact that the point we are arguing requires a completely unknown mechanism (paranormal powers, Goddidit, Aliensdidit, etc) to work properly.

And your logical fallacy is...
strawman
You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

And your logical fallacy is...
composition/division
You assumed that one part of something has to be applied to all, or other, parts of it; or that the whole must apply to its parts.
Often when something is true for the part it does also apply to the whole, or vice versa, but the crucial difference is whether there exists good evidence to show that this is the case. Because we observe consistencies in things, our thinking can become biased so that we presume consistency to exist where it does not.

Also...
middle ground
You claimed that a compromise, or middle point, between two extremes must be the truth.
Much of the time the truth does indeed lie between two extreme points, but this can bias our thinking: sometimes a thing is simply untrue and a compromise of it is also untrue. Half way between truth and a lie, is still a lie.

Ismael

130

Atheists and JWs are on the same footing!

by exWTslave in

atheists believe that god should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then he does not exist.

jws believe that god will intervene sometime in the last days!.

interestingly, both throw themselves on their own expectation of soemthing god should or will do, yet in fact something god does not have to do.

MadGiant

"Atheists believe that God should stop the large-scale injustice on earth; if he does'nt, then He does not exist.
JWs believe that God will intervene sometime in the “last days”!" - Ex

Here is the problem. Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods. The word stems from the Greek a- meaning "without", and theos meaning "god". Theos includes the Abrahamic YHWH(s), Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and every other deity from A to Z (and 0-9, !, ", #, $ or any other character, obviously).

The "argument" you described in the OP is made to force believers to challenge their believes and use logic. Not all gods are believed to be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, or even any of the three. Many gods are morally flawed, actively evil, or merely indifferent, and many are not all-powerful. The logical problem of evil doesn't apply to these gods, though the evidential problem of evil may still apply. This agrees with the point of the problem of evil, that the existence of an flawed, evil, indifferent, or non-omnipotent entity would be compatible with reality, while the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent entity would not.

Think about it, the problem of evil takes many forms. A god would be able to prevent evil and suffering. Evil and suffering exist. Therefore, the assumption of a god, any god is false.

I already know, their is no evidence to support the existence of a god, any god. The purpose of the argument it to make you THINK.

Ismael

edit: what Finkelstein said.

40

Stay Alive till '75

by John Chapman in

jw
friends

"stay alive till '75.

" remember that?

note: this is the year 5774 not 2014. why didn't they tell you that in 5735 (1975 ad?

MadGiant

"MadGiant, what do you want to do? You don't want someone else making decisions for you do you? That's what Babylon and the governments have been doing to you all your life..." - JC

But I am confuse right now and I need guidance. I think you know what you are doing. Help me. Ismael

40

Stay Alive till '75

by John Chapman in

jw
friends

"stay alive till '75.

" remember that?

note: this is the year 5774 not 2014. why didn't they tell you that in 5735 (1975 ad?

MadGiant

"If you think it's all bullshit that's also ok." - JC

We will be all right then.

"BTW, why are drugs the first thing to come up in any converstion that is out of the box?" - JC

If you want to terrify yourself, go into your medicine cabinet and read all of the really weird side effects at the bottom of the label. Beyond the normal "headache" or "upset stomach," you get weird shit that reads like ironic punishments from a vengeful genie.

With all due respect, you have to admit, you wrote some weird stuff right there.

Ismael

40

Stay Alive till '75

by John Chapman in

jw
friends

"stay alive till '75.

" remember that?

note: this is the year 5774 not 2014. why didn't they tell you that in 5735 (1975 ad?

MadGiant

What should I do?

Please tell me, what should I do?

40

Stay Alive till '75

by John Chapman in

jw
friends

"stay alive till '75.

" remember that?

note: this is the year 5774 not 2014. why didn't they tell you that in 5735 (1975 ad?

MadGiant

You might expect to see or hear something that isn't actually there if you were taking an illegal drug like LSD or even a heavy painkiller like morphine. However, some of the most unlikely prescription drugs have "may cause visual and auditory hallucinations" as one of their side effects, and it's probably not the ones that you'd expect.

Mirapex, along with its many other potential side effects, can also cause hallucinations. Parkinson's disease patients have reported seeing everything from snakes crawling the walls to people hiding in their closets. Though it's frightening and disturbing to have these hallucinations, reducing or even ceasing the medication often leads to the return of their tremors and other impairments.

Lunesta (generic name eszopiclone) is a hypnotic drug -- meaning, it induces sleep -- prescribed for sleeplessness with directions to take on an "as needed" basis. But its users, as well as those of Ambien (generic name zolpidem), have also reported night terrors and nightmares. Both Lunesta and Ambien patients, though, have experienced an even weirder effect: performing activities in their sleep.

These activities include not only sleepwalking, but eating, making phone calls, having sex and driving -- yes, driving. Patients taking these sleep aids have woken up while backing their cars out of driveways or while shopping at all-night grocery stores. Some "Ambien drivers" have been arrested for driving while impaired and causing accidents. Both drugs' makers include warnings about these side effects and emphasize that they shouldn't be taken with alcohol (which can exacerbate the effect).

Ismael

94

just what am I supposed to believe now??

by purrpurr in

while i'm glad i found this site, it has also crumbled to bits everything i've believed in my whole life.

i feel like the certainty, magic and wonder has gone out of my life.

this has left a huge hole in my soul.

MadGiant

"Just what do I believe in now?" - purrpurr
That is up to you, I choose to critically examine and evaluate all available information and make decisions, including those involving my "beliefs", based on thought, facts and reason.

"Is there a god?" - purrpurr
There is no evidence to back up the existence of a god, any god.

"I feel like I need god in my life," - purrpurr
Why?
We should hold no personal stake (aka heaven, earth, hell, nirvana, etc.), in any of the beliefs we hold, but simply in the rational assurance that whatever beliefs we do hold are indeed correspond with reality.

You can create one, the one you create it's going to be as proficient as any.

"I just don't know where to find him anymore???" - purrpurr
You are not going to find "him/her/it", they are imaginary. Feel free to do your own version of a god.

Help??
Try reading some books, do some research.

Take care,

Ismael

42

God listens and RESPONDS to your prayer if you know how to log on to Him! Here is the proof.

by exWTslave in

all my family members and friends (that include some elders) advised me to divorce my wife whose only joy was to pick up fight with me for everything i do, except my grand-mother who said: when you married her, you looked for only her good pointher regular pioneering despite having an opposing family.

for being good, you will ultimately reap something far better through her.

stick on to her.

MadGiant

And your logical fallacy is...

Anecdotal:
You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is the practice of using an anecdote (or anecdotes) to support a scientific claim. In the world of pseudoscience, an anecdote is the equivalent of a peer-reviewed, double-blind, repeatable scientific experiment with consistent results. In other words, the true believers accept that just because something once seemed to work for someone.

Respectfully,

Ismael