Francois, holy cow! And I thought I had guilt complexes when I was a witless.
Rhett, god being small and petty? You mean like christianity makes him out to be?
Hyghlandyr
JoinedPosts by Hyghlandyr
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8
Bad influence of JW's
by Pardus inwhen i think about growing up as a witness, the worst thing my mind was subjected to was thinking about, and actually believing that, everyone, even "good," moral people, would die at armageddon except "faithful" jws.
the more i thought about this, the more i came to believe that i don't want to serve a god that would kill billions of people simply because they were not jws.
if that did happen, i would not be happy in paradise, laughing and enjoying myself, knowing that jehovah and his armies had slaughtered so many people for that ridiculous reason.
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Status Report on NOT Smoking
by MrMoe inwell, folks, i am still holding on.... the intense cravings that last 30 seconds to 3 minutes is not what is tough.
what is tough is the confusion and weird feeling and the fact i feel like killing somebody.
i feel like i am on a mild hallucinogenic.
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Hyghlandyr
Thumbs up Mr Moe, from a guy who doesnt drink smoke or do drugs.
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11
IF You Call or Have Bethel Contacts
by messenger ini thought i would pass for those it may concern.
wt has instituted the highest security measures from within.
in the course of the last year security has been installed at the trunk or core line going into and out of all wt facilities.
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Hyghlandyr
If you are at bethel and dont want your net activities tracked go to an anon website.
Phones, no help there, suggestion, if it is true, dont go to bethel.
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55
Who would you most like to meet.?
by JBean ini'm just curious...if you had the opportunity, who on this board would you like to meet if given the chance (or could without getting "in trouble"!)?
(could be serious, could be fun...) i for one, am just sooo curious to meet the cat himself... just to find out if he's much different in person than in his online persona!
...and maybe pet him a few times in the process...
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Hyghlandyr
WTURLS
WTURLS
WTURLS
WTURLS
WTURLS
WTURLS
WTURLSYEAH BABY!
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21
I want to talk to a friend HELP
by lv4fer ini have only two close friends who are witnesses that i care about.
i would like to share my feelings with them and still not get dfd.
do you think it is possible or should i forget it.
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Hyghlandyr
Rhett I think you summed it up best. I had a thread going a few days ago about how to get people who are still witnesses, to talk to their disfellowshipped family members at least on occasion. The simplest thing to do is not get disfellowshipped if you can avoid it. I have, and by speaking plainly with the elders. But a key here is, I used the watchtower's website in the FAQ where it says plainly, they do not shun 'former members' and I pointed that out to the elders, which I had on my screen, each time they asked me if I wanted to DA myself.
However it sounds like iv4fer is not in my circumstances. If you are still going perhaps your best bet is to just gradually back off. If the elders come over dont get into a diatribe about why the witnesses are wrong. It wont save them and it will only ensure that you will not be able to 'help' them in the future. Personally christianity is as much nonsense as the witnesses, in fact that is probably why they are nonesense. However, if you are a christian, you believe perhaps jesus said to be wise as serpents. Now, not later, when you are banging your head, is the time for you to be wise.
You have been a witness, and so have your friends, for however long you have. Years most likely. They are not going anywhere and if you really want to 'help' them, then you need to keep yourself in good standing. Even if you gradually stop going, at least you wont be disfellowshipped. Then when the time comes that they are ready, and they have doubts, or they are disfellowshipped for something, or near to it, they will remember that you were always a listening ear.
Get disfellowshipped and you blow it.
On the chat rooms, even though I am a known apostate, I am also known to not be disfellowshipped or disassociated. I am as well known for not trying to impose a course of action on a person. A witness knows that they can come to me and I will honestly give them all sides of an issue as I see it.
When the entire U.N. thing broke out everyone was all up in arms about it, and still are, except I think for Cyg and me. A witness msged me and asked what I thought and what was the situation. I explained it to them as best I could. Said I do not have all the facts. As to why the watchtower was an NGO I stated I had no clue, but I understood that they were claiming it helped them with research. Perhaps it allowed them to sit on human rights forums.
Did this make them hypocrits I was asked. Maybe, probably, but who cares, we all have our hypocrisies. In my opinion I told the person, the society, and any religous group, has a responsibility first to their members to protect them, then later to worry about whether they are being hypocritical. If that is what the watchtower society did, good for them.
I didn't hear from the witness for a while. The next time I saw them they told me they were no longer a witness. Because of the U.N. fiasco. This was of course not my personal goal to make the witness leave, but if it were, then chiding the witness, going overboard with the witnesses, or the society, giving a deluge of other ways the society is hypocritical would utterly have failed.
With my wife and other witnesses I have met, I take an entire hands off approach. The witnesses in my book are pretty much the same as every other group. I am amoral. I do not need to save them, and while I want a cult, I prefer it to be a non-christian sex cult. So having a bunch of witnesses wouldn't help me. All of this has given me the freedom to let them have their freedom. Go to the hall, leave, do as you will, shall be the whole of the law.
And with my wife it has succeeded. That and that my friends are here a lot, so she is seeing that they are nice people, that others besides witnesses, can be trusted, and can be caring and helpful individuals. Someone suggested getting them to meet more people..that I think has been most successful in my case. Especially since I am not trying to get her to leave, just not give her entire life to them.
But, get yourself dfed and I have no advice, that is where I am floudering, thus the reason I started a post a few days ago, as I said at the top here, in order to find ways to get actives, speaking with dfed family members and friends. Have a little patience, their salvation might come slowly but it will only come if you are able to help, it wont come from you if they have to shun you.
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"Frailty" might be a good movie to watch
by Dogpatch inthis new movie has an interesting theme: religious fanaticism that goes bad and leads to a murerous cult ofb three, with mind control and all.
with the recent murders by witnesses who have become disillusioned with their faith, it might be a good watch:.
"frailty," which opens today in the new york metropolitan region, is the directorial debut of bill paxton, who stars as dad.
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Hyghlandyr
Uh, seeing it would mean getting off my couch. If I go through all of that trouble, I hope I dont accidently bring the demons back with me? Do you think the movie itself is demonized? For that matter, will I ever be able to go to any theatre that has played it? Questions for a witness to ponder, with all of the demons running rampant.
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Kind'a maybe sort'a TRUTH.
by Elsewhere inthe thread about the earthquakes stuck me with a thought... the wts still claims to be "god's visible organization on earth".
they also claim that they are "god's only channel" with the earth.. now they are making sweeping changes to their teachings from rock solid statements to a bunch of "kindas" "maybes" and "sortas".
they never say anything in a firm statement.
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Hyghlandyr
When you think about it, using vague statements is a brilliant strategy. It removes all responsibility from the shoulders of the one making the statement, to the person following it. It is a practice at your own risk kinda thing.
As far as them just now going from rock solid statements to kindas, ifs and maybes. Well, I became a witness in 88, left in 95, and became an ex in dec/jan of 99/00. I remember all sorts of vagueness way way back then. We often hour hours long conversations about what certain things meant, what groups qualified, what this or that doctrine meant we could or could not do.
Especially when it comes to morals I think even more than prophecies, does the watchtower use this kind of ploy. Often a witnesses is not told something is a disfellowshipping offense, and it is even implied in the articles, as was mentioned, that it is allowable. Then a witness is taken completely by surprise when they have the notorious 'talk in the back room' with the elders about it, or even are disfellowshipped. And the society can dip their hands in the water as Pilate. Meanwhile someone else in the congregation is doing the exact same thing and nothing is done to them.
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Follow up to my Patterson call
by Mulan inyesterday i posted this: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=25490&site=3.
last night, the po called me, because i had left a message for him.
he was also very nice, and said he would tell the elders what i said, and he would come visit mom on saturday.
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Hyghlandyr
Rehorsewoman thanks for those figures and for bringing something very interesting to light. As far as the cost of the magazines, when they stopped charging a set price I believe it was twenty five cents american.
What happens is the society tries to get witnesses to compare the perceived value of the magazines, and other literature to that in the world. Even offering suggestions. This has been most prominent in the KMs articles about the CDROM. I am quoting from memory here so it is not accurate but something like "Some people have found that similar programs cost fifty, or even one hundred dollars in the world."
Hogwash. I am a programmer, (who tries his best not to work), and I know what software costs. A good bible CD you can get for five bucks. A collection for maybe 50. As Redhorsewoman pointed out, a cd is minimile to produce. A few cents. You can buy CDs, programs or fonts or graphics and so on, for FIFTY CENTS or a BUCK in computer stores! I am not trying to infer that this is the run of the mill price, but it does happen for some of them. And the society tries to imply that their CDROM is worth a hundred bucks.
My wife and I got into an arguement over that when I first became an apostate. I wanted the CD, and knew she would donate like a hundred bucks for it. I told her give twenty five, no more.
Something else, I was a pioneer when the change came. I dont recall what we got the mags for, I think it was ten cents each, the rest was profit. Fifteen per mag. I got 30 mags each. If I had sold them for the profit that would have garnered me 20? bucks a month? hehe. Good thing I was livin cheap.
Anyhow, we had a big meeting several months later. What we were doing as pioneers, was paying the correct amount as we had been in the past, ten? cents per magazine, whatever for books. Asking for donations, and pocketing the rest. Naturally for those that actually asked for the donation, they were cleaning up. Then we were informed at this special meeting, just for pioneers, that now the society got all of the money. We were first to pay for them as usual, but on a 'voluntary donation' basis, and then turn over all of the funds we collected. We then asked, well, dont we at least take out the difference, between what we collected and what we donated in order to recoup our costs? But we were told no.
So the society may still sell them in other countries. They may not sell them here. However, those that with any regularity actually ask for the donation make far more than they would have selling them.
But I think many are not asking for the donations, I know we hardly did, especially when I stopped pioneering. Pioneers often tend to tow the party line a bit more than others in the congregation. But overall, one of the things that attracted me to the witnesses was that they were not about money. Of course, as I found out later they were. Still, they try to deny it, and put down, the plate passing and other such things of other churches. So the average witness is not all that comfortable with asking for donations.
Mulan, I hope things go your way and the congregation does not give you any more difficulty over helping your mother out. I am also glad there is someone at patterson helping you.
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How Field Service Destroys the WTS
by metatron inyears ago, congregations all over the world were built up.
and solidified by the door to door work.
since all witness.
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Hyghlandyr
Wow. Ive a few comments to make....
When I was a pioneer we were told plainly that hardly anyone came into the organization through the door to door activity. Rather most were people contacted by friends, family, and workmates. We had a cursory discussion on why the door to door then. Besides the fact that it still does bring in 'some' is the fact that it helps you build your faith.
If I had gone to college warning bells would have started sounding. Build your faith. This is another term for 'self-indocrination'. This in my opinion is one of the main reasons for the preaching work. When out in service you are surrounded by others like you. Surrounded by the publications, get a little bored waiting while someone is at the door, pull out a book and flip through it, or talk with the same people about the same things. What you are going to say at the door next, or some experience you had recently, or the fella who accepted a magazine five doors down and so on. If you do get someone at the door and get into any sort of conversation, you are reiterating the beliefs, often over and over and over again.
Say something enough times, no matter how untrue it is, and you will begin to believe it. Some kind of personal hyponosis perhaps, I would have to look into it more. But it is a common ploy of groups to alter our thinking. Remove our thinking from one thing to another. Specifically to their thing.
This again would be the reason for the emphasis on pioneering. Even if a particular family cannot pioneer, having someone in the family that is, lifts their status. I was not living with my father, was having absolutely nothing to do with him, but still the congregation thought it was so wonderful that his son was pioneering. This despite the fact that he had them convinced I was a thief stealing from him! A thief true, but at least I was pioneering, must have been their thought. (btw before another 'is hygh a troll' thread starts, no I was not stealing from him.)
A fella in this thread pointed out that it is more important to keep current members than it is to get new members. Well, I would state that is a fact, and thus the reason to continue the door to door.
Yet another reason, it is a hallmark of Jehovahs Witnesses. Some people know that the mormons do it also. But usually that question will be asked of the witnesses, 'arent you those people who come around with the bible door to door?' And from the perspective of the witnesses, since they have the concept that only door to door canvassing really counts as preaching, if they were to suddenly cease it, what then?
Also what would be taught at meetings? They have already derided the clergy for their fluff. They could not exactly go out and start youth groups, and support groups, and so on.
No, the door to door work is intrinsically tied to everything it is to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses. The other things might even eventually fall by the wayside, but this is their one defining quality.
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Women's Issues
by Joyzabel insorry i had to post this under friends, there is no fluff topic yet!
women's issues.
q: should i have a baby after 35?.
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Hyghlandyr
Oh yeaaaaah...women totally rock man.
I especially liked:
6. Taking a car trip without trying to beat your best time.
Of course that is because when I DO work (rare, as I am lazy and try to avoid it at all costs) I am a labrat, testing pharmaceuticals. The facilities are often four, five, or ten hours away from me. So we ride in shifts, get there as fast as we can and back.