LUKEWARM

Joined

• started 65 topics
• posted 442 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by LUKEWARM

• 
  71

  The Preaching Work Is The Biggest Scam Happening On Jehovah's Witnesses!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the most useless work a jw can do is preach!

  the watchtower society said that every baptized person, whether they be male or female, child or adult, is a minister!

  and the society says every minister must do a "life-saving work" and "preach the good news of the kingdom".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  Interesting thread....
• 
  13

  Understand the Witness mindset before we blast them with facts

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  telling a witness "hey, all the stuff you teach is bs" may be correct, but does that approach work?

  i have been reading on here how several have tried that direct method with their family or friends.

  it didnt work for me, and now i am having more and more success by repeating that i support the organization and the faithful slave, then i bring up "an interesting point".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  Hi BonaFide
  
  I'm in a similar position to you and find that asking questions starts them on the road of thinking for themselves instead of the 'Boys in Writing' doing all their thinking for them.
  
  Been using the watchtower recently (sometimes right after the meeting) asking my friends something like: Did you notice XYZ in paragraph 11? How did they come up with that when the Bible says ABC...
  
  After a while they open up and become much more at ease to discuss matters although they realise that we would be in trouble if the "elders" found out. I reassure them of my friendship and say that nothing said leaves this room and if the elders ask any questions they will not be implicated. I HAVE EXCELLENT SUCCESS THIS WAY BUT ONLY WITH CLOSE FRIENDS, PARENTS AND INLAWS- Its too risky with others at this stage...
  
  There is so much to talk to them about and I find that if you come across as having "meditated" on some "truth" and then you compare it to the Bible they listen and begin to process information.
  
  Conversation starters:
  
  Organ transplants - people died for what when they were banned in the 60's? Blood fractions - why ok to use donated blood and where did they come up with the approved fractions list?
  
  Why is preaching work urgent when half of world's population is not being witnessed to? How will God judge these people? What is our 30 second presentation really achieving? Is God going to judge people on the basis of listening to our magazine presentation? Why are we preaching a different 'good news'?
  
  "Generation" teaching - they received new light in 95 that it related not to 1914 but to wicked people living at a certain time, then in 2008 reversed it and now it apply to "anointed"? Did God reveal error to them?
  
  Why do they stress works when bible says that salvation is gods GIFT through faith in Jesus? What will save us - belonging to an organization of faith in Christ and living as best we can to please God?
  
  Why did Jesus not use Jehovah's name etc etc etc...
  
  Be patient, go SLOWLY and don't use the word "internet" whatever you do as they will automatically shut down...
  
  Lukewarm
• 
  12

  What do Elders tell Circuit Overseer's about inactive members during their visit?

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the 2 day assembly is this weekend for our congregation.

  the elders pretty much leave me alone during the year but when the circuit overseer is in town, they start hounding me.

  i try to make it one day but can't tolerate 2 days of the assembly.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  Cannot imagine that he would be all that interested unless your history is juicy and then he will want all the details - all he really wants to do is hang around the elite in the congregation...
• 
  12

  Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 30 March 2009

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *** lv chap.

  3 pp.

  28-32 love those whom god loves ***.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  Had a laugh at your comments Billy - you are absolutely right!
• 
  12

  Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 30 March 2009

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *** lv chap.

  3 pp.

  28-32 love those whom god loves ***.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  Hi reniaa,
  
  This is the old book study. Yes, the shock of coming to know the "truth" about the "truth" can be a little overwhelming.
  
  Posting here is part of a healing process which eventually leads to "letting go". In the meantime, just as we have benefited from the posters here, some use this platform to help others discern the issues.
  
  It's hard seeing our loved ones trapped in the religion like we once were and thinking it's the TRUTH.
  
  Lukewarm
• 
  12

  Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 30 March 2009

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *** lv chap.

  3 pp.

  28-32 love those whom god loves ***.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  Good observations Wizard!

  Bonnie, yes, this is the "Keep Yourselves in God's Love" book. Recently the hierarchy stated that all new ones need to study this as their second book after "What does the Bible really teach".
  
  Thanks for your comments Billie - The scriptures cited in paragraphs 12-14 have also been taken out of context and portrayed to say something they really are NOT saying.
  
  Lukewarm
• 
  12

  Congregation Bible Study Comments - Week Commencing 30 March 2009

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *** lv chap.

  3 pp.

  28-32 love those whom god loves ***.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  *** lv chap. 3 pp. 28-32 Love Those Whom God Loves ***
  
  LEARNING FROM A BIBLE EXAMPLEQ8. What impresses you about the relationship between (a) Naomi and Ruth? (b) the three young Hebrews? (c) Paul and Timothy?8 The Scriptures contain many examples of those who benefited as a result of choosing wholesome associates. You can read about the relationship between Naomi and her daughter-in-law Ruth, between the three young Hebrews who stuck together in Babylon, and between Paul and Timothy. (Ruth 1:16; Daniel 3:17, 18; 1 Corinthians 4:17; Philippians 2:20-22) Let us, though, focus on another outstanding example: the friendship between David and Jonathan.
  
  Wonder how many will take the time to read these accounts in their Bible and put their hand up to answer the question for this paragraph?

  Q9, 10. What was the basis of the friendship between David and Jonathan?9 The Bible says that after David slew Goliath, "Jonathan's very soul became bound up with the soul of David, and Jonathan began to love him as his own soul." (1 Samuel 18:1) Thus began an unbreakable friendship that despite a significant age difference, persisted until Jonathan's death on the battlefield. (2 Samuel 1:26) What was the basis of the strong bond forged between these two friends?
  
  10 David and Jonathan were bound together by their love for God and their strong desire to remain faithful to him. These two men shared a spiritual bond. Each displayed qualities that endeared him to the other. Jonathan no doubt was impressed with the courage and zeal of the young man who fearlessly defended Jehovah's name. David undoubtedly respected the older man who loyally supported Jehovah's arrangements and unselfishly put David's interests ahead of his own. Consider, for example, what happened when David was at a low point in his life, living as a fugitive in the wilderness to escape the wrath of wicked King Saul, Jonathan's father. In a remarkable demonstration of loyalty, Jonathan took the initiative and "went to David . . . that he might strengthen his hand in regard to God." (1 Samuel 23:16) Imagine how David must have felt when his dear friend came and offered him support and encouragement!
  
  What will go through the mind of the JW listening to these expressions?Love for GodRemain FaithfulSpiritual BondCourageZealFearlessly defended Jah's nameLoyally supported Jah's arrangementQ11. What do you learn about friendship from the example of Jonathan and David?11 What do we learn from the example of Jonathan and David? Above all, we see that the most important thing for friends to have in common is spiritual values. When we draw close to those who share our beliefs, our moral values, and our desire to remain faithful to God, there can be an interchange of thoughts, feelings, and experiences that encourage and upbuild us. (Romans 1:11, 12) We find such spiritually-minded associates among fellow worshippers. Does this mean, though, that everyone who comes to meetings at the Kingdom Hall is a good associate? No, not necessarily.
  
  Notice the CONTROL here - strong discouragement from forming friendships outside the religion: "...most important thing for friends to have in common is spiritual values... draw close to those who share our beliefs..."The outcome of this is that the JW no longer views people as persons but now labels them as either brother/sister or 'worldly'. Whilst this mindset will make the JW feel superior to worldly people, the reality is social isolation and the development of an emotional wall between the JW and those of a different religion. Once this is established, it fosters an ideal environment for the WTS to control the individual and their thinking. After many years of viewing people of 'the world' as ones who were about to be killed off and only feeling affection for the brothers and sisters, it can be very difficult to learn to make and develop friendships based on common interests and character, not just because they share the same religion.CHOOSING OUR CLOSE ASSOCIATESQ12, 13. (a) Why must we be selective in choosing associates even from among fellow Christians? (b) What challenge did first-century congregations face, prompting Paul to give what strong warnings?12 Even within the congregation, we must be selective if our associates are to be spiritually up building. Should this surprise us? Not really. Some Christians in the congregation may take longer to reach spiritual maturity, even as some fruit on a tree may take longer to ripen. Thus, in any given congregation, we find Christians who are at different levels of spiritual growth. (Hebrews 5:12-6:3) Of course, we show patience and love to newer or weaker ones, for we want to help them to grow spiritually.-Romans 14:1; 15:1.
  
  Further labelling some as "newer or weaker ones" and others as jet "to reach spiritual maturity" will make judging one another much more efficient. Where is the love Jesus spoke about?"Show patience and love to newer or weaker ones" is really designed to discourage JW's from associating with those who are considered "weak" in the faith - those who can't or don't attend all the meetings each week and who get less than 8 hours going out in 'service' every month.13 Occasionally, there may be a situation in the congregation that calls for us to watch our association. Some individuals might engage in questionable conduct. Others may develop a bitter or complaining spirit. Congregations in the first century C.E. faced a similar challenge. While most members were faithful, some individuals did not conduct themselves aright. Because some in the congregation in Corinth did not uphold certain Christian teachings, the apostle Paul warned the congregation: "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits." (1 Corinthians 15:12, 33) Paul cautioned Timothy that even among fellow Christians, there might be some who do not act honourably. Timothy was told to keep clear of such ones, not making them his close associates.-2 Timothy 2:20-22.
  
  Why not expand on what they mean with the expression "questionable conduct"?Are JW's meant to be silent, compliant brain-dead robots, 'YES' people - what are the alternative views and more importantly, why not address what issues people are bitter/ complaining about?Which "Christian teachings" did first century Christians not uphold and are these issues the same today - if not what are the issues?They use these vague statements to keep JW's in suspicion of each other, to guilt and make them feel afraid to associate with anyone who refuses to be brainwashed or moulded to the organizationally programmed treadmill of prescribed worship and interpreted "theocratic law".Q14. How can we apply the principle behind Paul's warnings about associations?14 How can we apply the principle behind Paul's warnings? By avoiding close association with anyone-inside or outside the congregation-who could be a corrupting influence. (2 Thessalonians 3:6, 7, 14) We must protect our spirituality. Remember that like a sponge, we absorb the attitudes and ways of our close friends. Just as we cannot submerge a sponge in vinegar and expect it to fill with water, so we cannot associate with those who exert a negative influence and expect to absorb what is positive.-1 Corinthians 5:6.
  
  "By avoiding close association with anyone...who could be a corrupting influence", the hierarchy is promoting an 'us' verse 'them' attitude - a superiority and labelling of persons who are on the fringes or don't have any 'privileges' within the congregation.Unity is paramount and enforced at the expense of the individual's choice and Christian conscience.Q15. What can you do to find spiritually-minded friends in the congregation?15 Thankfully, the potential for finding wholesome associates among fellow worshippers is great indeed. (Psalm 133:1) How can you find spiritually-minded friends in the congregation? As you cultivate godly qualities and ways, no doubt others of like mind will be drawn to you. At the same time, you may need to take some practical steps to reach out and make new friends. (See the box "How We Made Good Friends," on page 30.) Look for those who display the qualities you want to reflect. Heed the Bible's counsel to "widen out," seeking out friendships with fellow believers regardless of race, nationality, or culture. (2 Corinthians 6:13; 1 Peter 2:17) Do not limit yourself to those of your own age group. Remember that Jonathan was much older than David. Many older ones can bring to friendship a rich supply of experience and wisdom.
  
  BOX - HOW WE MADE GOOD FRIENDS
  
  ? "At first, I found it difficult to make friends in the congregation. But I discovered that having an active share in the ministry helped me to develop such qualities as patience, endurance, and self-sacrificing love. As I continue to develop these qualities, I find that like-minded people are attracted to me, and I now have some good friends."-Shivani.
  
  ? "I prayed that I could find friends inside the congregation. But for a long time, I felt that my prayers were not being answered. I eventually realized that I wasn't really doing anything to make friends. I wasn't taking the initiative. Since I began acting in harmony with my prayers, however, I definitely feel that Jehovah has answered them."-Ryan.
  
  To have "spiritually-minded friends" requires one to have "active share in the ministry" Why the obsession with the ministry and other ACTIVITY, namely: "I wasn't really doing anything" "I wasn't taking the initiative" "Acting in harmony with my prayers" Motivation based upon love and devotion means little to Brooklyn - its all about the WORKS
• 
  35

  DRAMA SUMMARY: 2005 District Convention - Pursue Goals That Honor God

  by ithinkisee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i forgot how ridiculously fictional and manipulative this drama was until i just typed up these notes:.

  scene:.

  jonathan enters, and everything is better.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  What a joke this made up drama was! Off course its all "bible based"!
• 
  14

  Gerrit Loesh (Bro. Deletion) on what the GB doesn't know but assumes, and you know what happens when they assume.

  by neverendingjourney in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i saw losch at two assemblies and he struck me as the quintessential hardline prick.

  i don't know anything about internal gb politics (who does?

  ), but if this guy were to assume an informal leadership role, the watchtower would swiftly take a swift turn down hardline road.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  .

  Aghhh another WTS representative pushing the party line about a secondary fulfilment of this and that. Somehow the Bible is incomplete and they need to add to it by speculating!
  
  Funny how confidently he sounds when explaining Revelation - given the track record of the WTS in having absolutely no idea and getting things wrong, what good is this human guesswork achieving?
• 
  55

  2009 "Keep On the Watch!" Convention Preview

  by garlic81 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  2009 keep on the watch district conventionfriday - prove yourselves ready mt 24:44. am.

  chairman's address.

  conventions help us to remain watchful.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LUKEWARM

  "Maintain Your Sense of Urgency"How will they justify this with:(1) The anointed increasing in number to almost 10,000
  (2) The "generation" Jesus spoke about no longer meaning wicked people
  (3) Book study deleted as separate meeting
  (4) "Millions now living" dead
  (5) Almost 100 years since 1914