Posts by winstonchurchill

66

If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

but i don't disavow my citizenship.

it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

winstonchurchill

Besty,

Don't know if you're married, but after so many years a lot is left unsaid, yet all is known by each other. So, yes, she knows I disagree with lots of issues. A few days ago I posted about a conversation I had with her regarding blood components/fractions; she knows how I feel regarding time keeping/reporting; also about kids not being baptized as minors, and some other issues. Sometimes I go into deep waters, and she puts up a shield.

What she definitely knows is I'm not the same I used to be in terms of being a WT soldier. She knows I'm full of doubts and for a while seemed really worried about "my spirituality". But she's come to understand that while may faith in God and my respect for the Bible are intact, I'm highly disappointed about the "organization"; and she's somehow resentful of the way I've been treated by the org.

Thanks for your interest. Probably one of the biggest downsides of staying in as a silent dissident is that I don't have a lot of friends if any.

66

If there's some good in the Watchtower, why leave it?

by AlmostAtheist in

jw
friends

the post about crisis of conscience in which the poster said he knows there's some bad in the watchtower (as brought out in coc), but there's some good in it too got me to wondering about people that stay for the good in it.. the united states makes some decisions as a country that i don't agree with, perhaps even object strongly to.

but i don't disavow my citizenship.

it's mostly a good place to live, so i stay.. if you want to live in a way that utterly conflicts with the watchtower -- homosexual, multiple sex partners, smoking, whatever -- then you have reason to leave.

winstonchurchill

Nice thread! Thanks for bringing it back Lukewarm!

Inbetween, I'm pretty much where you are. See, I was given 70 or 80 (hope 90) years to live, and have used almost half of that; wonderful parents, siblings, the best wife and adorable kids. I regret much of the time and effort I gave to WTS, but I refuse to waste more tie and effort by dealing with the DF/DA/fading, shunning crap. Why? What would I accomplish, other that losing all I have in terms of affection.

I'm thinking Family here, not "Brothers & Sisters"; those would turn their back on me in a snap; they are good people, but JWs simply lose the sense of real loyalty in friendship. After decades of 'association' I firmly believe that true and enduring friendship, the kind that resists anything, is just not possible among JW's.

So I stay in, but: I don't give WTS a dime, I have told my wife that kids will receive the best spiritual education we have available, I avoid indoctrinating them; it's like "I inform, you decide" (Can't believe I'm quoting FoxNews!). I have also made clear that they will not get baptized while young. I avoid participating in JC's unless I know I can avoid he person being DF'd. I'm seen as the 'liberal elder' (and frowned upon by some), but my 'glorious past' in the high ranks gives me an aura of power and some room for keeping militants away from me.

I don't have a clue what the future holds for me in terms of 'membership'. I decided not to worry about it. And I feel free. My wife and my kids are my life and nothing will get in the way.

208

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions regarding "attention seekers"?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

we all love it when people pay attention to us or our opinions.

but what i am talking about is people who crave and force attention from others.

not just people who talk a lot, but those that force everyone around them to focus on them and them only.. in one of my classes there is a woman who raises her hand to ask a question, but never really has a question to ask.

winstonchurchill

Just to state I was here, read the post and decided not to feed this lady's hunger for attention.

Now, back to the original question posted before it was hijacked: IGNORE attention seekers! Nothing else will work.

75

Pole, Please respond

by ldrnomo in

jw
friends

who is df'd.

who is da'd.

who is fading or faded.

winstonchurchill

Active. Elder.

Had doubts for a while. Not anymore: WTS is way off, grossly wrong on most basic issues.

89

Everybody say hi to my husband...

by cognac in

jw
friends

because we have a stinken spy on our hands!

oh, and he wants to let everyone know that he is unbreakable in the truth.

as a matter of fact, hes going out in service both saturday and sunday.

winstonchurchill

Hello!

Your wife's hot!!!

8

Last night conversation with wifey

by winstonchurchill in

jw
friends

she commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week).

i went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.. we were having dinner.

after a pause i asked her: "if i can eat potato, and i can eat beets, and i can eat carrots... then why can't i eat the whole salad?

winstonchurchill

Homeschool:

I meant that she's now quick to get jokes, hints, points. Lovely woman, but she doesn't have a quick mind when it comes to abstract thinking. She's very roted on what she 'knows' (i.e. WT teachings). But she fights back rather quickly when she sees I'm not being 100% WT-ish. She's not a weak person; on the contrary I call her the woman of steel, great character. She needs powerful and uncontestable reasons to change her mind. I think yesterday I hit a nerve.

And BTW, her salad is the BEST in the world.

57

Question

by inbetween in

just have a question,.

when you found out about things regarding the wts, maybe on the internet, on this side or another, or you had serious doubts by yourself, did you talk to somebody ?

maybe an elder or a good friend ?.

winstonchurchill

Back to the original question: I wouldn't advise talking to others (much less an elder) about your doubts. Nothing good wil come from that.

However I can say I have managed to voice a few things and get away with it. Maybe because my 'prominent past' within the org., or maybe because am known for speaking my mind and being irreverent, but I have seen o visible consequences (other that weird looks or laughs) to my comments. I also avoid challenging the FDS authority and concede that the poor guys are imperfect, yada yada yada.

But those close to me know I don't thinks there's scriptural basis for time keeping and reporting, ban on birthdays and thanksgiving, and that 1914 could be subject to revision.

On a Different note: I think poor Reniaa has IBS, because she's crappin' all day long!

8

Last night conversation with wifey

by winstonchurchill in

jw
friends

she commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week).

i went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.. we were having dinner.

after a pause i asked her: "if i can eat potato, and i can eat beets, and i can eat carrots... then why can't i eat the whole salad?

winstonchurchill

She commented on how clear the blood components/fractions issue was stated in the new book (we studied it this week). I went along and yes, the chart is very clear on what's allowed and what not.

We were having dinner. After a pause I asked her: "If i can eat potato, and I can eat beets, and I can eat carrots... then why can't I eat the whole salad?" She's slow but she got this one immediately, speechless. Still, she asked: "What are you saying? That we can use blood?"

I said "No. but why are fractions allowed, and components not? If I can use gammaglobuline, why can't I use platelets? Who drew that line? I understand that whole blood can be off limits, but I still don't understand why some components are allowed and some are not".

Then we agreed that if life depends on a fraction (or a component forthat matter), not taking it would be not valuing the sanctity of life.

I presented this to her in the most sincere way, and I know I got her thinking. She didn't fight back as usual.

Yeah I know, small stuff, but a giant leap for me.

43

Bethel tells us not to build a new Hall since no more Bookstudy! Takes our $147,000!!!

by Witness 007 in

yes we saved and loaned and skrimped to build our own hall as we share with 6 other congs amd our area keeps growing bigger.

we even picked out the land....nice, perfect for a hall.

we had 147,000 so....then the advice comes from "above" that bethel advised us not to build since the bookstudy is cancelled our hall can take one more cong????

winstonchurchill

I don't think nixing the BS had to do with producing more KH availability; maybe that was one of the convenient excuses.

But think about it: 90% of BS were held at private homes. Many KH were being used 3 to 4 nights a week for TMS & SM, and still are being used in that same manner.

I think BS was nixed due to: (1) Decreasing attendance; (2) Liability; (3) In many countries there's just not enough men to take charge of BS groups.

The real 'bottleneck' for KH usage is on weekends, when all congs want Sunday 10 am and Saturday 6 pm, and some schedules are so bad that they even have to rotate on a yearly basis.

The No-Construction arrangement they just disclosed has to do with: (1) HUGE decrease in contributions; (2) looming property tax liabilities; (3) shrinking congs. (In our area no less than 7 cases of 'mergers' in three years due to low attendance).

113

Hypothetically, If Someone Created a Fake Congregation to Trick Another...

by OnTheWayOut in

let's just stay hypothetical.

if someone wanted to create a fake congregation in 7-miles-from-nowhere, north dakota (7-m-f-n, n.d. congregation) in order to trick the elders at another congregation, what could they get away with?.

just assume that they use a p.o.

winstonchurchill

I'll add you to my list,....an xCO, that would be worth a few pitchers

Tresdecu, AFTER a few pitchers is when I'd become worthy