Posts by winstonchurchill

86

Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson

by flipper in

barbara wanted me to ost this information about her discussion at a seminar which was held in europe first, then chicago just a week or two ago.

you'll find this link interesting.

all comments welcome.

winstonchurchill

PS, your replies sound as if we didn't (mostly) agree, but we do. I'm just being devil's advocate to show how biased we can be if we don't watch out.

I slightly differ on the motives behind many (i didn't say 'all', or 'most') blood transfusions. Health care, especialy here in the US is business. Yes, I think too often doctors just prescribe transfusions without solid reasons.

What you say is truth about most procedures going wrong in some cases. Even vaccines under fire these days. But agreed thet we cannot just stop getting health care because of the risks.

As for choices should be individual, not imposed, i already said I agree. However if an INDIVIDUAL wants to decide based on scripture, or doctrine or on a dream he had last night, that his/her choice. No one should interfere. IF JW's want to teach their interpretation of the bible, and some people buy it, and make an individual choice, that's fine. The problem is enforcing punishment for those who don't agree.

As an example: Amish don't get vaccines. I disagree, but thet's heir choice.

86

Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson

by flipper in

barbara wanted me to ost this information about her discussion at a seminar which was held in europe first, then chicago just a week or two ago.

you'll find this link interesting.

all comments welcome.

winstonchurchill

Not sure what "blood guilt" the RCC has...unless you are referring to the crusades and all that other crap

Not that far, but let me put it this way: Ruanda. And I'm not getting my facts from Awake! but from UN and ONG's. I could cite more examples, but let's not miss the point: JW's are what they are, but let's not get too close to those who are not better.

You probably know that thousands die every year due con contaminated blood. Of course, I wouldn't use that to campaign againts transfusions. But I'm just trying to have all the facts before jumping to conclusions juts out of hate for JW's.

Bloodless surgery is on the rise because we have much better technology too, we can cut and cauterize much better than even 10 years ago.

Agreed 100%. I didn't say it was because of God's blessing or any other weird reason. My point is: If medical science is trying to get away from blood transfusions because is safer and because it's cheaper, and because we have better techonlogy... are we going to glorify blood transfusions just to go against JW's?

Balance is my keyword

86

Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson

by flipper in

barbara wanted me to ost this information about her discussion at a seminar which was held in europe first, then chicago just a week or two ago.

you'll find this link interesting.

all comments welcome.

winstonchurchill

"Thousands die after refusing blood" does not equal "Thousands die because they refused blood". My point: Most would have died even if they accepted blood. Who is to guarantee that accepting blood would have saved them? How many of those would have survived if they acepted blood? Can we know? How many die after receiving blood?

Don't let -probably well founded- rejection of JW's and their policies make you blind to the facts.

Ask yourself, why do we have more and more hospitals with bloodless centers? Why Jackson Memorial, one of the 10 best hospitals in U.S. has a huge bloodless center? Why do more that 50 hospitals? Why did Baptist South in Florida go in that direction last year? Or Engelwood Hospital in NJ? Why is this a growing trend? Why more and more doctors are going that way?

I'm not defending anything, but calling to some serenity and objective analysis. Blood is a huge -huge- business. A top doctor at Baptist admitted to me the main reason why they refused to do bloodless elective surgery until recently, was it wasn't financially profitable. If JW's policy on blood is wrong (and it probably is) and extreme, don't go to the other end of the spectrum and state that blood is a miracle healer. It is not.

I think debate is good, and decisions should be personal, not imposed by JW's or anti-JW's. But I agree with who stated earlier that Barbara is not doing a big favor to her movement by holding talks sponsored by Catholic-related organizations. Let's not kid ourselves. When it comes to blood guilt and pedophile cover up, JW's got nothing on Roman Catholic church!

63

Dumbest Awake Title Ever?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i hold in my hand the nov. awake magazine entitled "technology - blessing or curse?"..

now, i understand the need for balance and moderation in using technology, as the magazine says - but could they come up with a more intelligent sounding title?

it makes the question sound as if abandoning technology might be a solution, a considered choice, a real possibility.

winstonchurchill

Violence Against Women -- What Is the Bible's View?

Now THAT'S a classic. As if JW's moral centers' are so insubstantial that they need to consult the Bible to see if it's ok to beat their wives.

"Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? Or just plain burned out waiting for any of this shit to come true?"

STILL LAUGHING!!!!!!!

28

Assembly Survival Techniques

by KingAgag in

jw
friends

i told my wife some time back that i would fade, and i compronised that i'd still attend the memorials and assemblies (at least for now).

november 1st is the 'special' assembly day.

she said she doesn't care if i listen or not, it is more to help her with the baby.

winstonchurchill

Do you have an iPod or similar?

Obviously white earphones are a bit obvious but some more discrete ones could help you through the hours.

Not so obvious. Considering they announce the program is broadcast in FM for those hard of hearing, it's become more and more common to see people with earphones during the assembly.

Don't let them see it's an Ipod, as those don't have FM Radio. You must use a Sansa or any MP3 with FM. Ah, and don't drum your fingers to the beat, or worse (Like screaming "Tochdown!!!!")

43

JWs On FaceBook...

by cognac in

jw
friends

i find them to be annoying.

i have worldly friends, jws, and 2 unknown apostate friends.

the comments from jws are a lot like this: .

winstonchurchill

They don't really mean it. It's for public consumption---all talk, no walk.

BINGO!!!!!!!

30

Did any of you ever feel so sad a depressed in field service

by life is to short in

i used to go out in service and i always felt not wanted.

i would meet for service and if they could they would send me home, no one wanted me with them in their car groups.

and yes i did shower before going.

winstonchurchill

AE: Harder at what? Placing Magazines? Sure. Doing more hours? No doubt.

Now when it comes to helping others in practical ways... Not too sure. See, things are presneted to us in terms of "there's no better help than offering everlasting life", so nothing's more important than preaching, therefore there's not much time/effort for anything else. We are taught 'worldly" charities are worthless because they offer only temporrary relief... Well, temporary relief is what sometimes people need. If one of my kids is ill, I'd love some "Temporary relief" from a charity funded hospital; and I'm sure no JW's funds are helping that hospital.

You are 'active' as I am. tell me, how many JWs do you know write a check for St. Jude Hospital for kids with cancer? or donate to homeless shelters? or participate in community improvement events?

and when a storm fianlly hits and WTS decides to help, why is it a "For-JW's-Only" effort? Will a boklet with the hope for a better future help a lot a family without a roof?

30

Did any of you ever feel so sad a depressed in field service

by life is to short in

i used to go out in service and i always felt not wanted.

i would meet for service and if they could they would send me home, no one wanted me with them in their car groups.

and yes i did shower before going.

winstonchurchill

LITS: I agree there's good and bad everywhere. The mistake is to say that JW are all good, caring and loving; they are not. At least not more that in any other human group. If I had a heart atack at my office, some people will care, some won't. I wouldn't be surprised if I had to drive myself like you had to do. The difference is that my company doesn't boast about being a spiritual paradise, and place full of loving and caring fellows. JW's do. That's why their shortcomings come across as crass and unbelievable.

For years they make you think only JWs build houses for people in need after a storm; that only they care for their neighbors; that only here you find true love... well is not true.I've seen the good of many, many non-JWs organizations and people. I have to say much more than within JW's.

Throughout 40 years as a JW I have received help and felt the love many times... I also been ignored and mistreated many times. One thing I see for sure: they will be loving and caring when it's convenient for them, and when it's not bothersome. Otherwise, they'll tun their back on you before you can say 'spiritual paradise'.

43

"It's OK To Come Here, It's Not Unscriptural"

by minimus in

jw
friends

angel eyes said this.

i agree that it's ok to come here and it's not unscriptural.. so, i'm confused.

why would the watchtower organization, the faithful & discreet slave and its representatives, say witnesses shouldn't come onto sites like these?

winstonchurchill

As per WTS is not Ok to come here, and WT feels they have scriptural basis for saying that; just look at the quotes Blondie posted from WT literature.

Having said that, many of us do come here, whil being aware that if this was disclosed to others in the congregation, it would be a matter of minutes for a JC to be set.

Just to make my point, a few weeks ago, I dared to mention (not quote, not read, not recommend.. just mention) Richard Dawkins to a couple of witnesses friends. After the dirty looks, they told me I should know better, and not even hear about that 'anti-christ'. Can you imagine if i told em I come here, I read Dawkins, and even skimmed thru Ray Franz's books?

21

The Truth Of "Serving" As An Elder

by minimus in

jw
friends

who the hell are "the elders"?

being an elder is supposed to be a "privilege".

elders are supposed to be "shepherds" who care for the flock.

winstonchurchill

After more than 20 years I'm still an elder, but definetly I'm not the same, and my views have greatly changed. I went up in the ladder, got very close to the top and that a profound effect on me: We are just men! It's all show-biz, ego pumping, power seekers, control freaks. That has made me change. A year ago I struggled with a whole BOE and then the CO, as they wanted me to be the new PO; I politely refused, and by the ed of the visit they gave up. With a mix of confusion and admiration the CO told me he had never seen such a capable man shy away from the spotlight, and commended me for it. I just told him it has less to do with being humble, and more with deconstructing the myth that elders are special or powerful; it's about serving, and you can do that form any position.

Needles to say, I'm considered weird, a liberal.