the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.
it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.
the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.
larc:
I would have to say that MDS seems to have much faith in God. That is to his merit. I disagree with his notion that he knows 'the mind of God', because if he really does, then God's mind is no better than ours, and THAT is a contradiction of scripture in and of itself. He can claim 'prophet' all he wants to, but his HUMANITY shines right through.
the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.
it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.
the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.
I see the scriptural support here so clearly. It's not that difficult to see what the bible is saying. If anyone else can understand the post of MDS, count yourselves blessed not to be blinded of these things
I agree Jr. I too see the scipture support for what is going on here, and I am sure those folks will be glad to be aware of false teachers such as 'Lord' MDS that Jesus counseled us to be aware of.
Seek and you will find; dig and it will be uncovered.
I thought MDS had done that for us.
I'm sorry to see JW's showing so lack of faith in God's words. I'm not saying lack in the Society words, but lack in Jehovah's own words, the bible.
And you have the society to thank for that. The society is the way to remain in God's favor, right? Wouldn't a JW consider YOU without God's favor?
Edited by - ianao on 1 February 2001 14:2:48
the following discussion is based upon a question raised by larc, under another thread posted earlier.
it was interpreted that i could not answer the question.
the question was then, followed up by circare to the effect that i should comment upon it for the benefit of others who may be listening.. i have decided to respond.. these are the actual quotes, asked of me.. ...one minor point.
larc:
From reading your last post, I get the idea that you only want to communicate with those who believe your conclusions with out question.
I think you've nailed it right on the head. I think the "dialog" between Frenchy and MDS just shows MDS' mindset. It kind of reminds me of my boss here at work. He walks around with a coffee mug that reads: "Me boss, you not!"
And with comments such as this:
Frenchy, you say you have "questions." But, you are clearly not sincere, in your questions at all, but wish to "catch something from my mouth," as the Pharisees tried to do to Jesus. Your wickedness is clear.
His posts to Frenchy are a form of damage control to his "disciples". You know, the ones who are asking themselves: "Why won't God's mouthpiece admit that he is such?"
You know as well as I do that this is necessary in order to keep members, especially ones that are not protected from other sources of information. Perhaps he wishes to keep silent blanket statements, and let others draw their own conclusions, so later on when something he said WOULD happen DOESN'T, he can tell them that they came to faulty conclusions themselves.
And with comments by Frenchy such as this:
That's really what this is all about isn't it? You are getting revelations from God. You're something special. God has given you the authority and understanding through divine revelations and has charged you with the responsibility of dispensing this ‘knowledge' to the unprivileged masses.
I think he already knows what the answer to his questions would be, if MDS would answer him. MDS seems reluctant to make this outright statement because he knows the problems that occurred in the past and present with the WTBTS. I really don't blame MDS for not answering the questions, although it is a disservice to Frenchy, who resides on the same DISCUSSION BOARD that he does.
I am intrigued at how spirituality can be toyed around with. Kind of like politics. I agree with Wendy, I think he wants that spiritual "power", the "high". Hence his will to equate "faith" in HIM as a prophet with "faith" in the Bible. That way, his followers will be following God in their eyes, when in actuality they are following another MAN's interpretation of the Bible. This outdoes Fallwell and Koresh. Sheer brilliance. Doublethink at it's finest.
I think the anger that you and I both see in his posts are frustration on his part, the same frustration he showed to me, possibly realizing that some of us here have seen him as the wolf in sheep's clothing that he actually is. This is something I have recently come to accept, as I have seen it done myself in a xtian church.
MDS:
Bravo! Pure genius. The perfect "brain game". I thought you were mentally sick, but you are A GENIUS!
A couple of suggestions though:
#1. I would recommend you get your own website. You can gain many more followers if you post your message for all to see, instead of a discussion forum such as this where wiser people can expose you. I suggest you check out http://www.amazingfacts.com, it's a fascinating site setup in the same guise as the WTBTS's main sight.
#2. Xtian churches use "tithing" as well as offerings in order to gain more money, and they have shown that you can live much happier by taking the money of others, and having your followers feel that they are doing a good Christian service to boot.
#3. When wiser people begin to "debate" with you by asking you to clarify your beliefs, it's not the wisest thing in the world to accuse someone of "debating scripture" when you yourself are using scripture to substantiate your claims. This may be a way of silencing dissenters, but people more versed in these tactics can expose your sidestepping (quite easily IMO) as the use of sound critical thinking skills used to substantiate yourself in scripture become flawed, and you end up looking like a "Holier than Thou" egotistic charleton, instead of Jesus Christ.
Just remember MDS, don't howl at the moon while wearing wool, people will start asking questions.
Edited by - ianao on 1 February 2001 13:31:34
sir i do not know you or claim too.
this world is a funny place, and the people in it are even stranger.
some people get validation from their families and others get it from outside of their families.
Hello everyone.
Mommy, thank you for putting into words what I could not. Always the kind and caring one. Thank you!
To everyone reading this thread, I give you one word of counsel regarding MDS and his "flock". I have conversed with MDS on this chatline, and from his speech to me he seems to think himself Jesus Christ (while his textual responses are otherwise...) I would like to remind you of the following counsel by Jesus himself, given to his disciples when they asked for a sign of his presence...
Matt 24:
Verse 4
And in answer Jesus said to them: "Look out that nobody misleads YOU; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many...
and in verse 10...
Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many;
and in verse 23...
Then if anyone says to YOU, 'Look! Here is the Christ,' or, 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.
Oh, MDS, Did I take this scripture out of context? I'm so sorry. Well, since Jesus' ordered his disciples to "make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit" (Matt 28:19) I tend to consider the rank and file just as much a DISCIPLE as the 'annointed', so the words of warning as printed above APPLY to everyone reading this thread who loves Jehovah God and Jesus Christ, as far as I am concerned.
MDS, you can argue context, you can argue evil, it just doesn't matter. Intellectual and spiritual egotism go hand in hand. You would do well to listen to the advice of NickL on another thread and his counsel to Thinker's "intellectual egotism", because the book you quote from was penned in this world, and your knowledge of it came from skills taught to you as derived from this world.
I hope you get the help that you need. And you really should at least respond to Mommy. I've talked with her, and she doesn't seem to lack any of the intellect of others on this board.
Signing off...
Edited by - ianao on 29 January 2001 0:49:45
i've always wondered why it was, that when mankind was supposedly closer to perfection, god kept in direct contact with people either through angels speaking, or prophetic dreams, seas parting, etc.
but the further man got from perfection the less and less contact he gave people.
it seems like the worse off we are, the more help, or direction we would require.
TR, OH NO!
Not that Sitchen stuff again.
when you were active, or if you still are, did you all maintain non-jw friendships?.
i've always kept some close friends who weren't jws.
but reading a .
neyank,
As far as my kids go. I try to teach them to look for the good in people. Whether they be in a certain religion or not.
I am not a parent (need to grow up first), but that sounds like excellent parenting!
my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.
he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.
jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?
logical:
I sure dont recall saying that. If I did, then fair enough, but I am 99.99999% convinced I didnt.
To everyone reading this thread, I humbly apologize for giving logical undue "credit" for something he did not say. Logical, I am sorry I mis-represented you.
Larc, I am sorry I mis-quoted you, too. (Hadn't had dinner yet. Water on the brain)
my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.
he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.
jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?
Recall the Pharisees, when they tried to trap Christ? Thats what I see when these "arguements" pop up. They used all sorts of things so they would have something against him, you know the story. They ended up finding an excuse, and killing him. But it was just an excuse. Nothing bad... Christ did NOTHING bad.All he did was provide the correct interpretation and fulfillment of some scriptures, that the Pharisees had DISTORTED to fit their OWN DESIRES. They didnt like this.
If you had FAITH, you would have realised the TRUTH on this board.
Ok. Sounds good logical, and I will remind YOU of what I say to a JW that asks me "where will I go?" based on well-known passages in Matthew when I say that JWs are not the only religion.
"YOU are not Jesus Christ."
"MDS is NOT Jesus Christ"
"I am not Jewish"
Do you remember the sciptures? If you do indeed remember them, then as I said before, I will not fall prey to FALSE TEACHERS, who say "lo, there be Christ!" *I* prefer to "listen, NOT" as Jesus directed. You see, I listen to HIM. Not YOU. That is also why I won't attempt to cast out demons from MDS, because I KNOW I AM NOT... Jesus Christ, and I KNOW I can't do it!
You need "Eyes of faith" to understand. Something, Jehovah has given me. Something I intend to maintain and use to its fullest.
Fine logical just remember what you said to MDS in an earlier post... "I don't need God's spirit to understand you.", this is from memory, so you may have said "Jehovah's spirit".
You sure didn't need Jehovah to hear MDS. You expressed a LOT of FAITH in the words of another human being, definately NOT born of a virgin.
my huband posed something to me yesterday that i had never even thought of before.
he said, wouldn't it be possible that if a group <ie.
jehovahs witnesses> fell out of gods favor, what would stop him from choosing another group?
logical:
Now we are in business. Now, just post that puppy, or setup a website, and we will know that you have TRUTH, because with TRUTH, there is nothing to HIDE!
BTW, you've taken the first logical step, in the RIGHT direction.
i am not a jw, but i do have some questions.
1. what is the basis for believing all religions other than jw are false?
is there a scripture that states this?
BTW cleojones:
You can look at the beginning of the book of Matthew for the linneage of Jesus Christ.
