I just stumbled upon this very doctrine that I never knew was taught by GB! Them claiming that Christ is mediator between anointed and God. So who the F#$% is the mediator between the rest of the people and God? If every JW concludes their prayers using Jesus name wouldn't that make all witnesses believe that Christ is their mediator as well? So if Christ isn't as GB claims then why would everyone pray in such a way since the bible obviously must be wrong where it states that there is only one mediator between God and men and to prey in the name of Christ. So obviously my bible is outdated by GB insight. Am I missing something here? How much more delusional can the GB be?
diamondiiz
JoinedPosts by diamondiiz
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Christ or GB the mediator
by diamondiiz ini just stumbled upon this very doctrine that i never knew was taught by gb!
them claiming that christ is mediator between anointed and god.
so who the f#$% is the mediator between the rest of the people and god?
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What % of WT Society Higher Ups Really Believe what the WT Teaches ?
by flipper inas opposed to how many gb members, wt legal, wt corporate attorneys and the powers of the wt society know it's a big scam to exert power and control over it's members ?
as always i look forward to your opinions and observations .
peace out to all, mr. flipper.
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diamondiiz
I didn't see this topic since I posted a very similar one the other day. It's possible that Russell was sincere either in his younger years or was so until he died even though he was teaching a lie. Obviously he wasn't as honest as the society makes him out to be. Anyways, Rutherford certainly made things work to his advantage and maybe until 1925 he actually believed all that Russell taught. Now after Rutherford many of the leaders grew up within the religion and obviously with the lie. I doubt that most were educated since that's one of the no no's of the WTS so at present they either are still believing it or not but are in because where else would they get such kingly treatment? But really, did anyone have any contact with them to know what they believed? It's hard to imagine that they actually believe 607 and 1914 at present time. Since this thread is not only about GB which I'm really curious about, the other more educated people would be the lawyers. Do these people get paid? Do lawyers get some sort of allowance or are they just as ignorant of the facts and follow GB teachings blindly?? The Canadian WTS lawyer (Howe?) who died had an office out of Bethal, was that official office or he just needed an office from which he practiced law? Did he have any other clients other than WTS? I guess the lawyer questions would apply to all WTS lawyers not only Howe. Anyways did he charge any witnesses to represent them? Or did he actually do it for free out of true sincerety? I just don't understand why these guys would do it for free if they have education and seen all the deception over the years? What's the deal?
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1925 - What the Society was really teaching.
by Ultimate Reality inhaving trouble w/ images.
please delete & i'll repost.. .
2009 - "since 1925, jehovah's witnesses have recognized that world war i and the events that followed amount to sure evidence that christ's presence in heavenly kingdom power began in 1914" (w.09, 3/15, p.16).
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diamondiiz
That quote is true. It's decietful but true. In 1923 or 1925 they changed the 1878 to 1914 that Christ began to reign as king NOT that Christ returned in 1914. 1874 was still taught that was Christ's invisible return date. That's why it's a deception. One has to read carefully what they're saying because if one questions it WTS will reply that they're not saying that in 1925 they taught Christ returned in 1914 but only that he began to rule as king! WTS is a deceptive organization and those that don't know history can't catch it so in a way the mag can be used against most ignorant witnesses because they won't know any different but WTS would plainly reply with what I wrote above.
ps. I would have to read the entire article if there is an outright lie in it.
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Governing Body believes
by diamondiiz indoes anyone know these people privately and have they ever discusses in private what they really believe?
it's so wierd to think that when examining the history of wts there are so many scandels and wrongs that have occurred and yet these people sit at the top teaching what they do.
where is the money going?
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diamondiiz
Does anyone know these people privately and have they ever discusses in private what they really believe? It's so wierd to think that when examining the history of WTS there are so many scandels and wrongs that have occurred and yet these people sit at the top teaching what they do. Where is the money going? Beth Sarim isn't around anymore! Do they feel that they've been in it too long to walk away and not have a pansion? Can they be so blind to believe their own lies? This is one question I just can't answer myself. Russell may have been sincere about his crap dates but one would think that 1914 would open up his eyes but since he died during WWI, it's possible he thought that the great tribulation has started. What was Rutherford's excuse? Maybe he put his trust in 1925 but after that? Is that why he build a mansion and lived a good life supported by the donations? Rutherford probably didn't care for anyone else thus he didn't care that others believed the crap he wrote as long as he had daily needs paid for. But Knorr and others? One would think that these men would have fixed the chronology or any other nonsense! And yet to this day there is a scandel after scandel occuring, seems to be a scandel every decade! Who are these people that have such control over others and what do they really believe?
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JW friend wants to tell me about Christ's return in 1914....Advice needed!
by whyizit inmy long time friend recently took the plunge (baptized) and is now trying to recruit me.
one of the first things she told me is how all the "other religions" should be carefully inspected, because they are all wrong, in a nut shell.
so, i asked the obvious: i'm not concerned with all the others, i'm here to talk about your's.
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diamondiiz
607 is a clue. You will not be able to reason with her from other publication or you will have a very difficult time since WTS tells people that everything is satanic and is in opposition to God which they alone represent. Ask her if Russell was guided by spirit? She should say he was. Then follow by asking does she know what Charles Russell taught as to dates? Don't give her any answers but ask her what did Russell teach concerning start of last days? 1799 Ask her what he taught about return of Christ? 1874 She probably knows that one from proclaimers. Ask her about what Russell taught about when they will go to heaven? 1878,1881 1914. If Russell taught all these things how was God's spirit guiding him in those dates?
Ask her why he used the pyramid of giza to point to 1914? If Russell was guided by God's spirit by using pyramid to support his dates why did Rutherford call pyramid of Giza as a Satan's tool?
Why did Rutherford state that there was more proof in the bible of 1925 than that of 1914?
Why did Rutherford build Beth Sarim (mansion for the resurrected ancients mentioned at Hebrews 11) and live there and drive cadillac while other servents worked for peanuts?
Why did Rutherford build Beth Shan which contained 2 war bunkers during world war 2?
Was Rutherford directed by God's spirit?
You can ask about organ transplant and why they banned these only later to change their minds while people died. Was that directed by God? - She might answer that these people will get a resurrection - but was that done by God's spirit? Did God need sacrifices?
What about Mexico? In the 60s Malawi witnesses were tortured and killed for not buying a political card but WTS doesn't tell a story of Mexican witnesses bribing officials to get army cards. Why in Mexico until late 1980s were the Kingdom Halls called Cultural Halls while other religions couldn't own property WTS did but under deception that they were not a religion! Where was God's guidance there?
In the 1970s they pushed a date of 1975 as a very possibility of the end and encouraged people to sell properties and do all they could for 1975 was a special year and when nothing happened they blamed the followers for worshipping God only for a date and pushing the blame on the followers not themselves. Was there any indication of God's spirit guiding them in that?
Why in 1990 they joined NGO which is a bronch of UN? WT calls UN an image of Satan's governments and yet by their membership as an NGO they were supporting UN charter for 10 years and only disassociated themselves after UK Guardian newspaper revealed their connection. Where was God's direction in that matter?
In 2007 they paid out millions to pedophile victims who they faught in courts for several years and only paid them out prior to the court trial. If they were innocent why didn't they fight it to the end as God would have given them victory if they were relying on God! If they paid out they either admitted to being guilty or didn't rely on God or both! Where was God's direction upon that decision?
So exactly how does God direct this religion if they seem to have some sort of a scandel every decade of their existance that they need to cover up! You don't have to tell her all this at once but one point at a time and if she doesn't have an answer tell he to find an answer and get back to you. You can tell her to read Thy Kingdom Come book which was written by Charles Russell that helped me open my ideas when I stumbled upon it! When people get baptized who weren't brought up as witnesses they have no idea about the history, hell people raised in WTS religion have no idea about their history! Tell her, you're not questioning her believe in bible or God but the religion and be careful how you approach her with your questions because if she discusses your questions with someone else and most likely is will and is at present it's possible that they will tell her that you're an opposer who deals with apostates and she may tell you that she can't speak to you no more because you are trying to destroy her faith. Hope any of the above help
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70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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diamondiiz
Josephus doesn't support 70 years either. Originally he seemed to push 70 years but that was probably because he was a sympathetic jew when younger but his later writings (Against Apion) pointed that temple was destroyed around 590 or so which is closer to 587 not 607. He was probably more balanced in his latter years.
The only reason WTS holds onto 607 because all the other BS dates that Russell taught were discarted by Rutherford. If there is no date to hold onto and point that Christ has returned and that we're living in the last days GB has no message to the world. They can't make money selling a paradise that is imminent and they would have been out of business long time ago. As long as WTS can keep some date in their hat of magic tricks most followers won't question the entire religion. IMO 1914 is a major doctrine that can open people's eyes to see that they've been decieved by those who usurped christ's position and claim to be anointed.
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607--1914 chronology origin and modifications summarised
by jeandeau ini am interested in summarising how rutherford and the wts originally set forth the 607 (606) -1914 chronology.
this is hidden from witnesses today and only a sanitized "trimmed for easy consumption" version is taught to avoid "confusing" the faithful.
for thirty years the questions ate a larger and larger hole in my gut as a jw as it became more evident that the full truth was not being revealed to us for ulterior motives.
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diamondiiz
Russell learned much of his believes about chronology from Nelson Barbour who learned from William Millar and if I remember correctly John Brown was one of the first to push end of gentile times to be in 1917.
Anyways, date history.
1799 was start of last days and 1873 was end of 6000 years. 1874 Christ returned invisibly and 1878 rapture was to occur and first ressurection of the dead to start and Christ began to reign as king. 1881 another date of repture of anointed which failed again and was pushed to 1914. 1914 was the end of gentile times and using 606 BC but calculations forgot about the zero year and the passageway in the pyramid of giza confirmed that 1914 was a marked year. Nation of Israel was to be born. In the 1920s Rutherford was sellign the 1925 idea and moved Christ's kingship to 1914. In 1928 the pyramid of giza doctrine was said to be from the devil and the last days with christ's return was moved to 1914 some time in the very early 1930s.
It appears that Rutherford was trying to eliminate any bible students who were still following Russell's model of congregational arrangements and Rutherford decided to set himself as emperor and name his group Jehovah's Witnesses so that the bible students who didn't conform to his way would be seen as opposing force and this was also his way of taking full control of the "ruling" elders within the congregational arangement. If I remember correctly it was in early 1940s where WTS published a book that definitly stated that Christ returned in 1914 and that it was 607 not 606BC when the temple was destroyed. 1918/1919 nonsence was introduced by Rutherford as well which upto this day still benefits governing body as an excuse that they were appointed by Christ and thus every one else needs to look up to them for guidance.
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Spirit directed
by diamondiiz init would be interesting to ask gb which doctrines do they feel were spirit directed over the years and which ones are today?
what would those bastards have to say to that?
they're directed but not perfect?
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diamondiiz
It would be interesting to ask GB which doctrines do they feel were spirit directed over the years and which ones are today? What would those bastards have to say to that? They're directed but not perfect? LOL Not perfect in interpreting the direction of God's spirit so that's why they made mistakes about so many things? These men should stand trial for lives ruined, for wasted years and for decieving so many in their weakest hour! These men are evil slave if nothing else.
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The cost of going undercover to help family and friends - Is it worth it?
by BonaFide inso all of you that are trying to help your family and friends as a disassociated person, or disfellowshipped, or sort-of-shunned.. what do you think about getting reinstated or reactivated to help them get out?.
the time invested would be two meetings a week, about 6 hours total including driving.
for those on the outside, you would have to get reinstated, so you would need 2-3 months of going to meetings making sure the elders see you and know your intention.. add field service in there.
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diamondiiz
Reenia:
Watchtower so righteously sits without a lie and a deception! Here's one for you from Watchtower May 1, 1988 p22. I'm sure it's just an error on the part of editor or maybe the one writing the article forgot what she really learned. The editor surely didn't bother to correct the article so others could really feel how good it was for this lady to learn that Christ returned in 1874 - oops I meant 1914.
“Do you believe in the second advent of the Lord?” I asked the young man who came to the door.
“Christ’s second advent was realized in 1914,” he answered.
In astonishment, I told him that was impossible. “You should read this book,” he said, handing me The Harp of God.And what did Harp of God teach? 1914? I don't think so.
There are two important dates here that we must not confuse, but clearly differentiate, namely, the
beginning of "the time of the end" and of "the presence of the Lord". "The time of the end" embraces a period
from A.D. 1799, as above indicated, to the time of the complete overthrow of Satan's empire and the
establishment of the kingdom of the Messiah. The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as
above stated. - Harp of God page 107Talk about deception! By deceptions watchtower is poisoning the truth and minds of innocent people. When people are blinded to the facts they will leave their families behind to follow governing body's opinion who they view as gospel! You defend these men so blindly, are you working from the bethal to defend the scum who claim to be leaders appointed by Christ? What is your reason to defend governing body? You're neither defending truth nor God but only those who claim to have the authority from above but are really deceivers, blindly leading people astray! They are the evil slave the Jesus talked about who in time will have nothing to do with Christ when he does return.
Another point, it's governing body who destroys faith. When they enslave men who they deceived and when any of these people actually wake up and realize they've been had, many don't know what to do and leave God and that's all thanks to the governing body who decieves men just like satan did. They are the cunning bunch who through smooth words snare people and start to slowly poison their minds. That is why they discourage people from doing personal research without watchtower publications and that's why they claim the entire world is against them. Why else would they keep 1914 and other dates as untouchable doctrine and call anyone questioning this nonsense as an apostate? They are the wolves in sheeps clothing! And it's they who destroy faith of many that realize they've been lied to all these years.
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Watch Tower or Watchtower-Which is it? My blog on Freeminds
by AndersonsInfo ini hope you don't think i'm blowing my own horn by posting this information about my latest blog.
i spent a lot of time researching this subject and i think some of you folks might like to have this material in your files for future use.
it was a tedious project, but i learned a lot.
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diamondiiz
Hi Barbara:
Does the link still work? I only get an error message. TIA