Both but at their level I can't imagine them being as innocent as maybe some were during the 70s - during Ray Franz' era. In the year 2010, I don't believe they aren't covering up 607BC lie. I don't believe that they all believe that Jesus returned in 1914. Can they honestly sit through their meetings and believe that the entire archeaologic evidence pointing to 586/7BC for the fall of Jerusalem is some big conspiracy and then they scheme up ideas how to adjust the generation understanding for the regular joe publisher? Maybe they are hopeful that God will step in soon and bring in Armageddon so all their BS is "fixed" and OKed by the invisible man in the sky. In this day and age I'm not buying that GB members are innocent like they would like us to believe.
diamondiiz
JoinedPosts by diamondiiz
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32
Is the WTBTS mistaken or deceptive?
by exwhyzee inwhen i look back at history, i see the great lengths people have gone to, to prove their devotion to god and to carry out what they though to be his will.. do you think the watchtower organization is truly trying to deceive people and cover things up or do you think they are honestly misguided or mistaken in some of their beliefs and policies ?
if so, what purpose would they have for doing this?.
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need info on...
by notverylikely ini am putting together some things to bring up when the elders talk me (i got ratted out for being apostate), so i need some info on the following.
i am putting some of this together myself, you you folks here seem that have that stuff handy .... - list of babylonian kings on the cd (which articles) to show 587 is the date the list gets you to.
- article that the wt wrote saying that if you study the bible on your own you will turn apostate (i seem to recall it, but not sure if it exists).
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diamondiiz
While showing the elders that 607 is wrong, you can point out to the elders that since 607 is wrong, Jesus never returned in 1914 and never appointed fds in 1919 thus gb is a fraud and anything that comes from them deserves to be questioned:)
If you show anything outside of wts teaching you will be labeled an apostate and df so if that's the way you're going might as well give them some food for thought.
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Are JW's Dangerous? Youtube Mirror of WTComments video
by OnTheWayOut inhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1ggji29rj0.
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diamondiiz
Cold Steel:
There are several levels of cults, some are more dangerous than others. Cult and religion are also similar in nature. Total submission of gb is one sign of a cult. In most religions, you can still disagree with the leaders and your family will not disown you. If you do this in a JW family, it's a 50-50 chance you will end up talking to an elder. If I said at a family gathering that GB are full of shit and 1914 is nonsense I am willing to bet that most would take offence and my chances are extremely high that I would be invited to an elders' meeting sometime after that dinner get together. They do strongly encourge disassociation from family members who don't agree with it's leaders. They discourge close association with unbelieving family members as these cannot "help" you spiritually. They build walls between their members and outside world and build an ideaology of them vs us. As for deprogramming, how many witnesses need healing after leaving wts organization? Many do. That's why many are here still getting over their past. Many who leave wts still feel guilt, or still have their preconcieved ideas that they will be destroyed at armageddon any day as they're not worthy of god? These ideas are destructive and may not be on the same level as Charles Manson's cult but doesn't make wts any less dangerous. They repeat their dogma over and over, and more you attend their meetings the more likely you're to be controlled by this crap on a subcontious level which exhibits itself in your way of life.
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The two witness rule
by dgp insuppose an active jehovah's witness sees a worldly person abusing a worldly child; for example, touching her genitals, and the witness goes to the police.
the worldly police will take action.. now, suppose the same jehovah's witness also sees a witness abusing a witness child in the same way, touching her genitals.
the witness knows he can't go to the elders because there are not two witnesses to the fact.. does the witness get to think that there is something very wrong about the two witnesses rule?
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diamondiiz
Jehovah's witness also sees a witness abusing a witness child in the same way
that witness would be a second witness as the child being abused would be the other. In child abuse cases, many times there is no second witness to the act so it's the word of the abused vs the abuser.
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So...how EVIL was Theodore Jaracz??
by Joliette ini'm reading crisis of conscience right now and even raymond franz mentioned in his book that ted jaracz didnt vote during governing body sessions based off of 'a gut feeling' like dan sydlik and lyman swingle did, but voted based off of having 'a mean spirit (dont quote me on that) but bascially got an overall vibe that ted jaracz was not a very nice man.
and whats this about the child abuse policy that he enforced?
what did he do that made every ex-jw's in america hate him?
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Can Jehovah Really Read Hearts?
by Yan Bibiyan in(a)if jehovah can really read the heart, then he with no doubt would have read the hearts of the perfect adam and eve and would have known that they will sin when set up for a (failure) test.
then he would have known that he will punish them and all mankind for many thousands of years, which would case immense suffering, all to prove a point to his archnemesis!.
in the real world, an example comes to mind.
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diamondiiz
Lets say God exists and this reading of hearts is true. We can assume that God doesn't read hearts or look into the future without a warrant to do so, so he would not look at satan's or Adams heart at the time. But, when God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and other cities mentioned throughout the bible, did God read the hearts of babies and small children? Were all babies to grow up wicked even if their parents were to be destroyed and EVEN under the care of the Israelis ALL these babies and small children would have grown up wicked???
What about Armageddon? Same question can be asked, why would babies and small children be destroyed if supposedly children were not to pay for the sins of parents and could it be said that ALL these kids were to grow up evil even if taken care of by survivors of Armageddon? This also leads to another question, if God can read hearts what's the use of JW preaching? Does someone who rejects WTS dogma automatically is classified as wicked by God (even if JW were true worshippers). After all how would a muslim know that jws were true followers of God when their religion teaches them they have the true faith?
Does it sound a bit confusing as to how God is to judge? If a group was performing some sort of miracles it would be easier to identify as there is something more to a group but just because someone says they have the truth, it is really meaningless in the world unless men are to be gullible and assume everyone is speaking the truth and doesn't want to mislead. In this case, without some miracle how are Christians to assume their faith is the truth when a person of another faith speaks to them of another teaching? It's a circular reasoning which doesn't have answers and God's love is in vain as it doesn't mean anything since he is to kill anyone and everyone just because they haven't join some group that doesn't have any real substantiated proof of having God's backing.
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Popular Music
by alice.in.wonderland inthe thread about my avatar disappeared.
i think my avatar picture is harmless, but i did say earlier the gothic witch possibly gets back to music i listened to as a teenager.
associated imagery is as follows:.
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diamondiiz
I'll be at the Seattle concert Sep 3 :)
AIW how many people have died due to listening to Slayer? How many people died due to listening to WTS doctrine on blood?
Which can hurt you and your family more? Slayer or Watchtower? I would say that Watchtower is the real evil that spills innocent blood, that preaches hate and decieves millions.
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Advice on introducing doubts to friend
by gutted ini am asking you for your opinion/advice on questions or ideas to introduce to my friend to make him start doubting the wbts.
no doubt when he sees my new goatee it will be a bit unnerving for him, maybe i could use this as a starting point.
perhaps you have things that have worked others?
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diamondiiz
Witnesses, especially those that aren't ancient don't have a clue about wts' old history so assuming they only know what wts teaches at present ask something to do with 607.
If 607BC is wrong then 1914 was no show on part of JC and FDS wasn't chosen in 1919 thus GB are a fraud. If this conclusion seems to be valid all other teachings by wts should be easier to question.
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Why do some of you JW's stay in the organization?
by dgp ini have read that up to 67% of all jw's leave the religion when they come of age.
so i wish i could know why the others stay.
in your opinion, what keeps them in?
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diamondiiz
Jehovah's Witnesses have hope
Hope is useless. I can hope to win a lottery and it won't make it happen. I can hope in a toothfairy and it won't make it real. JW hoping in paradise is no different than hoping to win a lotto as it's an idea sponsored by those at the top which is a bit more colorful than the lotto corporations put in their ads.
As for the original question, I'm guessing there are many answers but the vast majority who stay don't have a clue about wts' past thus they are believing the shit that is printed and forced on them every meeting they attend which controls their thinking habits and their behavior. I would never left, have I not found old wts publications which opened my eyes to the wts deception. The problem is that some of those that leave wts without learning the truth about wts are affected by the wts doctrine which leads some to return to the cult years later and others live a "defective" live styles believing that they left God's organization and will ultimately die soon at armageddon.
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Youtube of the 'Remain in the Secret Place' generation talk at District Convention.
by ThomasCovenant inapologies if this is old news.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giol10a6fvw&feature=related.
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diamondiiz
lol 2 groups? Where does it say there needs to be only two groups? Why, Joseph had 11 brothers so couldn't this generation be compiled of 12 groups? Franz makes up the first group and then there are 11 that follow? After all number 12 represents "divinely balanced organization", so it would make sense if GB had a future "light" that the generation doesn't end until each group of the generation experienced the different stages of the generation that Jesus spoke of.
unbelievable that people will buy this shit