1) Are you saying that Jehovah's witnesses are The exclusive people of Jehovah as were the Israelites in Moses day?
the answer:
-- Not only the Jws.
The gathering that started with Russel marks the beginning of God's people -- in the "latter days".
The time has approached for God, to bring His Kingdom on earth , and that Kingdom has to start here within a people (of saints), so Jehovah God proceeded to gather His people.
For a certain man , or group of men , to be considered "alive" from God's point of view , they need to "eat" from "Heavenly bread" - John 6:32,33,35.
So , God gave it to them: Psalm 78:24 / 105:40b (prophetically shown here).
What is the Heavenly Bread ? -- It is Jesus' sacrifice together with the correct understanding of how it works (a teaching)!
It implies a correct understanding and knowledge about what is (both) the weakness and willfully sin !
As Jesus teaches, after one's baptism/consecration , that "ransom" cover only weaknesses , while the christian person is commended to "clean" his hearth : see Mark 7:18-23.
All these things listed by Jesus here are willfully sins , and are not forgiven after receiving "the truth"... see Hebrew 10:26!
Jehovah God through His Spirit helped br. Russel to understand this teaching - in 1872 - and so, this is the very year of starting "God's people history" -- a year found not by some kind of chronology , but as a result of the work/action of God !
God used Russel as "a prophet" ... see Hosea 12:13 !
Starting with that time many persons came to a good relation with Jehovah God to do His will, based on a good foundation.
So, from that time, all men that lived according to God's revealed requirement to keep "holy" (1Tess. 4:2,3,6,7,8,.) whether they call themselves Bible Students , Jehovah's Witnesses (included various eastern groups of Jws). or the disfellowshipped ones(still Christians), are God's people !
Now, God was expecting from His people to be "faithful".... Isaiah 63:8-10 !
But they were NOT! ... it happens like this : read Deuteronomy 32:15/ Hosea 11:1,2...5,7,
Therefore Jehovah God decided to punish them - it is a manifestation of His RIGHTEOUSNESS! - see: Isaiah 66:18 / Jeremiah 5:29 /Deut. 32:19-21...
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2) Are you saying that Russell and Rutherford were true sons of the Kingdom ?
the answer :
-- Russel and Rutherford had a heart that loved God, and they never taught others to sin wilfully , in spite of having many weaknesses , specially Rutherford .
Jehovah God speaks right: Isaiah 43:27,28 !
The main sin that God charges the two is : Jeremiah 2:12,13. Yes , they did not wait for Jehovah in giving the "food", but they mixed the teaching received by Holy Spirit with their own conclusions...
So , a lot of teachings such as "the chronology" (the way to find these years like 1914, 1925, 1975 etc.), piramydology , natural Israel as God's people , God's earthly organization , etc,etc,... are NOT biblically and NOT from God !
But because Jehovah God uses them to give food and warnings to His people, and they have not broken the covenant, He shows us they are forgiven through Christ sacrifice./YHWH considered they had a good/clean heart before Him .
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3) Are you saying that 2 Thess 2 was then fulfilled when a group took control of the bible students and stood in the holy place?
the answer:
-- While Christ was sowing wheat , when "everybody was sleeping" the enemy sowed the weeds!
Starting exactly with Russel , the shepherds of Israel were sleeping regarding to ... what is written in Hebrews 12:16,17.
So, persons like Esau were "born" into christian congregation.
They got numerous and became the "opposite side" of truth --the weeds. Because even the wheat sinned against God , He decided "a day" or a period of time to punish His people (the holy ones)
That punishment meant to be : the holy ones had to lose the leadership over God's house and "the Esau house" gained it !
the "7 persons-heads" that took control after Rutherford's death belonged to Edom.. they taught (indirectly) that Christ ransom covers the wilfully sin , that means they took away the continual offering ...see Dan 8:11.
The "holy place: does not mean "the society WT", but refers to the spiritual Temple and the (kind of) worship there.
So , the weeds were already entered or "sown" in the Temple , but when they took control of Society , and so , over God's people , they in fact elevated themselves to the position of "god" according to 2 Tess. 2:4 !
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4) Are you saying that they tampered with the word of God by creating the NWT to mislead the sheep?
the answer :
-- Yes they "adapted" the bible to their purposes !
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5) Are you saying that this group is in fact the "seven headed wild beast" ?
the answer :
-- Yes ,they were 7 "anointed" which proved that have lost their anointment (or have broken the covenant) because of their works , and they became "the 7 heads"....of the beast, but the entire beast include all human - organizational structure that was imposed over God's people all over the earth .
In fact , only people who obeyed and subjected themselves under the leadership of those 7 heads were allowed to be in "positions" in this organization !
they all together are "the body" of the beast.
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6) Are you saying that all those within the WTO have received the mark of the beast by being baptised into the WTO?
the answer :
-- Not by baptism... but by receiving, believing and living according to the erroneous teachings proliferated by this "man of lawlessness" they have received the "mark of the beast"
the worst thing (worse than changing the baptismal vow) the beast did, is removing the Christ sacrifice's meaning, ( "and the continual burnt offering was taken away from him" Dan 8:11 ) , saying and teaching that the wilfully sin is covered by His sacrifice !
All persons believing that , loving that teaching , while they love to play with wilfully sin (and to practice it ) , are those with beast's mark..consciently .
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7) Are you saying that the two annointed witnesess were russell and rutherford and their preaching truth works were stopped by the beast ?
the answer :
-- I don't ! The two witness are two class/groups that compound the body of Christ: the "prophet" and the "priest". both being "wheat".
Geremiah 23:11.
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8 ) Are you saying that the two witnesses (the holy ones) will be soon given the kingdom when they are re-established and the beast is killed ?
the answer :
-- Yes ! the holy ones HAVE (need) first to be cleansed !
and then the kingdom will be done to them! Dan 7:21,22,25,26,27.
they have to be gathered ! Isaiah 11:11 / Ezekiel 36:24,25,...32!
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9) Are you saying that the only people who have any connection with this work are within the WTO ?
the answer :
-- Not only!
But the most of them (the gross number) are there ... at the daughter of Babylon Zech.2:7.
Also there are (some of)Bible Students and others , but it is surely about those who have "eaten" from Heavenly Bread ! (they are those who rightly appreciate what means "be saints because I am saint" as God says.
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10) Do you believe that the wild beast only dominates Gods household rather than the whole of the human race?
the answer :
-- Yes ! They dominate God's house , while deceiving the whole earth saying that they are God's people or chosen ones and Jehovah's unique channel on earth !
They "interposed" themselves between God, His kingdom , and the rest of all humankind , and that happened in a time permitted by God ...
this way they dominated all persons on earth who wanted to approach God and his Kingdom ...
of course , those of humankind who were not interested in serving God , are not part of this picture..
Dear , here is a "body" or a "building" of teaching ! There is a full bible and events to prove it ! Here I used only a few arguments ...
See: Jesus did not tell historical tales to his contemporanes about Egypt , Babilon , or Rome etc,etc, as beying part of the seven world's Powers ... and much history...
but He told them words that implied directly their hearts and their way to worship God , implying their responsibility before God !
Each prophetical part He quoted, He applied it to them, revealing their state of heart before the Father and himself
Today God's people like to tale about political beasts...because that not discover what's inside their heart !
But today is a time to seek God's righteousness, by returning to Christ's teaching, to obey it ! Matthew 17:5.
God's people until now were composed of two "nations": the holy ones or "wheat" , and the "weeds" or wicked ones ... Jeremiah 5:26 / Deut. 32:21.
Jesus said (Matt 24:34) "that nation will not pass till... "
He referred not to "generation" , but to the bad "nation" , the weeds . The wheat will not be able to escape from them (the weeds) until Jehovah will come through His Messenger , (at the second coming) , while all signs will happen! Matthew 24:32.33.
He comes to do the judgement at The Temple and all his people , to refine Jacob's sons , to deliver them from under all Babylonysh slavery and then to give to them the Kingdom !
The wicked nation is that: see Matt 16:4,
the sign of Jonah is , they ( "the evil and adulterous generation") will see when God's spirit comes over the two dead witnesses and they stay up again ! Rev 11:11.
While the wicked nation will be ready for destruction (even named themselves as Jehovah's witness), for the righteous nation today Jehovah is preparing something good ! see Isaiah 26:2 .
" Open the gates, that the [uncompromisingly] righteous nation which keeps her faith and her troth [with God] may enter in." ...
(where ? see Rev 22: 14,15 )
Hope this help a little,
wanting truth
wantingtruth
JoinedPosts by wantingtruth
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23
The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus
by wantingtruth injohn said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?
--------the kingdom of god---------- .
"the kingdom of god is near.
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wantingtruth
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Did You Know Any "Genuine"" Old School Anointed?
by Number 6 ingrowing up in scotland in the 1970s in scotland the anointed were few and far between, but we had one old dude in our cong who claimed to be one of the anointed.
in the days when it was taken seriously.. i'd be curious how you viewed them.
thing is, he wasn't an elder, or even a ministerial servant, just a plain old publisher.. but he was revered like he had a hotline to jesus.. the other week i was talking to a friend of similar age to me but who hung around the wt a lot longer than i did, and he just commented "oh him... he was a doddery old fool who used to just sit and piss himself.
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wantingtruth
I met one about twenty years ago
was interested in what he had to say from the anointing he received
(as I knew that each anointed is taught by spirit - 1John 2:27 - As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, his anointing teaches you about all things ...)
and I heard as it is written here
w.t.
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venting: My wife is the most dangerous kind of JW
by goingthruthemotions ini need to vent again here.
because i have no one else to talk with and no one who really understands except for the people here.
my wife is the most dangerous kind of jw.
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wantingtruth
Hi ! you said
"she believes everything they teach and i mean everything without question..."
- Is she believing the Bible also ? ... or only men's words ...
you may read and gave her to read from God's word ... any translation (no problem) as you will find in the following list
https://www.facebook.com/Seeker4GodsKingdom/posts/1596983540587058
~ wantingtruth ~
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Imagine yourself back in First Century Jerusalem....
by wantingtruth ingreetings everybody !.
i've found the following article being useful specially for those seeing the "light" but not having the courage to leave .... written not by me.
imagine yourself back in first century jerusalem.... .
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wantingtruth
~~~~~~~~~ THE SONG OF MOSES ~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~ Jehovah's People during the "latter days" ~~~~~~
~~~~ (the "witness" of Jehovah against His people) ~~~~>>>
https://www.facebook.com/Seeker4GodsKingdom/posts/1596983540587058
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The Kingdom of God - when in Heaven ? -- according to Jesus
by wantingtruth injohn said "...the truth came through jesus christ" ?
--------the kingdom of god---------- .
"the kingdom of god is near.
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wantingtruth
Subject for study ... food still current ...
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Does God Have A Visible Organization On Earth Today?
by wannabe indoes god have a visible organization on earth today?.
is it not true, that jehovah had a representative line of kings sitting on his throne at jerusalem, and didn't that line of kings end when king zedekiah was deposed from the throne?
while it was operational could it not be said jehovah had a visible organization on earth while those kings were ruling?.
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wantingtruth
Has God An Organization On Earth Today ?
I have read the Bible .
I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an "organization" on earth .
The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement. BUT what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.
And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !
And he taught us that Father’s will is that this Kingdom to come on earth.
And he taught us to pray for that.
And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son” (Matt.17:5), we are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”That is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that His Kingdom is not here yet ( we are still praying for it to come) !
Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?
He says He has a people ! ... Acts 15:14 / Titus 2:14
But has He always had “a people” on earth ?
NO ! because the history of His chosen people begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.
So, before of that event God had individuals and "family" .
When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family” (of seventy souls). And there they become a "people". Genesis 46:6,27.And what God always had on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them ... Ezekiel 18:4
“Behold, all souls are Mine;
the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine
The soul who sins will die."What is God doing “always” is as it follows :
"The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God."
Psalm 14:2.So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not "organization"!
Now , Jesus has formed the “Christian community” within which God’s Kingdom has to come .
And how does He did it ?
To the "two greatest commandments" (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the "center" of the "Christian community".As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:
He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:
34.“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:35.Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !
There was never need for a human "organization" to keep His faithful ones united !
That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).
Within this (worldwide) "community" (or ekklesia) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time / at God’s established time.==========
Regarding the much used phrase:“God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:
Job 34:29
"When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?
And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,
>>> That is, in regard to both nation and man. "So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people)...
... while He may be "at peace" with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be "angered" over His nation , as a "whole"
... while He may be "at peace" with His "people" , He may manifest His anger over a certain "individual" who proves to be "law transgressor"
Wantingtruth.
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Exerps, Conversation/Debate with a close old friend still in the Borg. Comments please!
by dark angle inpart 1. .
she was suspecting me that i'm no longer interested in the borg, and she was trying to get a confession.
this is how our conversation went out.
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wantingtruth
"Being Gods organization without being inspired by him, I found this is incredible."
In fact God never said that He has an "earthly organization", nor He called his arrangement an "organization"
what men call/name "God's organization" should be a way of living (for humankind) according to God's will (or strictly obeing God) - yet God doesn't call this: "organization" , He call it "God's Kingdom" and "The Kingdom of Heavens"
(that means that the Kingdom is of God and is Heavenly - NOT earthly )
and God sent his Son on earth to preach this Kingdom and to teach that it will come on earth
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to call/name a human arrangement(with its limitations) "God's organization" it is even a blasfemy.
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wantingtruth
The gentile times had to be "reconsidered" !
Why ? - because they (the seven times) are part of "later days" prophecies , therefore the "gentile times" or the "seven times" are shorter than the "latter days" , are only a part of the latter days ! So no need to look for the "gentile times" as starting sometime before our era ....
Why so ? - because the spiritual understanding of Daniel's prophecies requires that they have to happen/take place during the latter days , and within God's people (so not with political powers)
Because the "gentile times" are exactly a part of Daniel's prophecy , Jehovah sent an angel to Daniel to tell him when and to whom will theese prophecies happen : Daniel 10:14
"Now I come to make thee understand what shall befall
-- thy people
-- in the latter days / for the vision is yet for many days "See the study "The latter days chronology"
wt.
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How would you define RELIGION, and why?
by Fernando in"judge" rutherford defined or classified all religion as "a snare and a racket" in his books "religion" and "enemies".. after rutherford's death in 1942, his protege, watchtower vice president, and aclu darling, hayden c. covington, in the early 1950's, for reasons of legal expedience and supremacist aspirations, suddenly converted the watchtower into a religion.. this was done alongside one of the most audacious, spurious and longstanding swindles of the us legal system.
this involved twisting philippians 1:7 and misrepresenting the watchtower's true nature, objectives and activities.. .
this meant that it became necessary for the watchtower to suddenly reclassify and redefine religion (w51 1/15 p. 43 new legal booklet well named; w51 8/15 p. 511 questions from readers; yb75 p. 161 part 2 "for gladys bolton...").. two new watchtower classifications were suddenly created: "true religion" and "false religion".. now "true religion" meant "true beliefs" whilst "belief" in ever changing watchtower doctrine was equated with the one "faith" of scripture.. all this while the watchtower increasingly and maliciously truncated, obfuscated and hid the liberating full "good news" (or unabridged gospel) of scripture, which it lyingly claimed (in court) that it was actually "defending and legally establishing".. how would you have defined religion before learning ttatt?.
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wantingtruth
hello,
apart of what lingvistically "religion" may mean , I would compare "religion" with Jesus way of naming the "adoration of Father"
He said / John 4:24
"God is a Spirit. And they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."
Therefore "religion" is EVERY kind (and ALL kinds) of "worship" or "adoration" which is NOT in spirit and NOT in truth .
or, all manifestations of "adoration" beyond of what "worship in spirit and in truth" means .
wt.
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Luke 12:45 - Does that mean the F&D can go "bad"?
by thedepressedsoul inthe more i read the gospels the more i get the feeling that jesus warns about organized religion or those that overbear on your faith telling you completely how to worship god.
let's say luke chapter 12 is talking about the f&s.
does vs 45 on mean that the f&s can turn bad so to speak?
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