GromitSK

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Posts by GromitSK

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  34

  $6,600 Expenses For a One-Day Assembly At a Fully-Paid-Up Hall? WTF!

  by Room 215 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the wife just got back from a one-day special circuit meeting (or whatever they call it) at the regional assembly hall.

  it's got a capacity of about 1,200, fully paid for, staffed by volunteers and in use for less than eight hours.

  then the guy making the announcement tells the crowd that the one-day expenses for the gig was about $6,600 (?!!!)...

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  GromitSK

  Bit of a snare and a racket really isnt it?
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  21

  Humourous and Inspirational Church Sign Messages

  by Heaven in

  1. social
  2. humour

  our little evangelical church has a sign out front and often times has funny or inspirational messages.

  i really like the current one which is:.

  by his wounds .

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  GromitSK

  I once saw a sign that said "When you were a baby your parents brought you. When you were married your wife brought you. When you die your family and friends will bring you. Why don't you come on your own occasionally?"
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  25

  The People Up There vs. The People Down Here

  by Confession in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  do you ever detect a difference in the way people make evaluations of an organization, as compared to an individual?

  how about a difference between the way people judge one who holds an office of some sort, compared to one who doesn't?.

  it seems to me that many people have a different set of standards for, say, "the people up there" as opposed to "the people down here.".

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  GromitSK

  I think the comments do relate to the original point broadly. There is a debate about whether a person or organisation should take this into their own hands or whether there is another way - encouraging the victim to report it where possible depending on the age of the young person, or a parent. Earlier in the thread mention was also made about the decision to report being perhaps the responsibility of the parent in the first instance. If the parent or child will not report it, it may be difficult for the authorities to obtain evidence in order to prosecute. I think this is all relevant. How focused do you want it to be? Just a yes or no in answer to your question or is there some wiggle room for debate here? :)
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  25

  The People Up There vs. The People Down Here

  by Confession in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  do you ever detect a difference in the way people make evaluations of an organization, as compared to an individual?

  how about a difference between the way people judge one who holds an office of some sort, compared to one who doesn't?.

  it seems to me that many people have a different set of standards for, say, "the people up there" as opposed to "the people down here.".

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  GromitSK

  CPS does not remove children from their homes without proper investigation -

  yes they do if they consider the child to be at risk before a full investigation can be completed. This is true in the UK anyway. In the UK at any rate it is the Courts who authorise removal of the child in the first instance. They often don't have a lot of evidence at that stage.

  In the case of children I can't think of a good reason for the parents not informing the Police. In the case of abuse against adults I think it is for the victim to decide who they talk to.
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  66

  Myths about the Church - to Coffee

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following are questions raised by coffee_black that deserve a response:.

  opening note: often times we here how rome cherry-picked the bible to suit their doctrine, yet many people, mostly non-catholics demand that only the bible sola scriptura be used as the canon of the faith.

  there is a serious inconsistency in such a demand that both worships the bible on one hand and then condemns the church which compiled that very same book on the other hand; the very same church, and the only church which formally declared the bible is inspired 800 years after jesus christ!.

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  GromitSK

  check out http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ - you might get a laugh and there is quite a lot of interesting material there too :)
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  47

  Ramapo denies Jehovah's Witnesses tax exemption

  by lrkr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20090503/news03/905030339&s=d&page=#pluckcomments.

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  this morning's paper- front page..

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  GromitSK

  Agreed. They are not the only ones ripping the tax system off.
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  66

  Myths about the Church - to Coffee

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following are questions raised by coffee_black that deserve a response:.

  opening note: often times we here how rome cherry-picked the bible to suit their doctrine, yet many people, mostly non-catholics demand that only the bible sola scriptura be used as the canon of the faith.

  there is a serious inconsistency in such a demand that both worships the bible on one hand and then condemns the church which compiled that very same book on the other hand; the very same church, and the only church which formally declared the bible is inspired 800 years after jesus christ!.

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  GromitSK

  Thanks Amazing. When you say an authenticated record - I might accept that he existed. I far as him doing what he said and did I would say there is no way to know that from a written record and we would be reduced to accepting the word of long-dead unknown writers, most of whom had an axe to grind as followers. I certainly wouldn't suggest Christ was a fraud (if one accepts he existed) however we are not talking about Christ but those who claim to have recorded his sayings and doings. In terms of filtering, as you wil be aware there was a large number of "Gospels" many of which it was decided would be excluded from the canon of the Bible as they either did not fit the agreed pattern (whose pattern?) or were plainly fairy stories. Some of which were contemporaneous with Jesus.

  I am not sure how Art History would give anyone a sound conviction that Jesus existed, performed miracles and that the Bible is the word of God but that could just be my ignorance.

  Faith is an important ingredient of everyday life I agree. Faith in a story that was written down milennia ago? By person we have no way of knowing or validating other than what they or their followers wrote about themselves? Whilst I respect everyone's right to believe what they want, I would not expect anyone to place much faith in something so distant and lacking in objective evidence (not that these people existed but that they were and did what they claimed). It is a personal choice and the standard of evidence which is acceptable to you might not be to someone else as I am sure you will agree.
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  66

  Myths about the Church - to Coffee

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following are questions raised by coffee_black that deserve a response:.

  opening note: often times we here how rome cherry-picked the bible to suit their doctrine, yet many people, mostly non-catholics demand that only the bible sola scriptura be used as the canon of the faith.

  there is a serious inconsistency in such a demand that both worships the bible on one hand and then condemns the church which compiled that very same book on the other hand; the very same church, and the only church which formally declared the bible is inspired 800 years after jesus christ!.

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  GromitSK

  As a non-christian I don't see how you have to abandon Christ because of what those who claim to represent him have done. The problem you will have is determining who this Christ bloke is in the first place as so much of what he is alleged to have said (ok ALL of it) has been filtered through religious authorities and in some instance secular authorities (eg Constantine, King James etc) for centuries, each with their own axes to grind. I would say that there is no way you could know what Jesus did or did not say based on Scripture.
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  25

  The People Up There vs. The People Down Here

  by Confession in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  do you ever detect a difference in the way people make evaluations of an organization, as compared to an individual?

  how about a difference between the way people judge one who holds an office of some sort, compared to one who doesn't?.

  it seems to me that many people have a different set of standards for, say, "the people up there" as opposed to "the people down here.".

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  GromitSK

  I suppose it depends on the role of the person discovering the suspected abuse. In my opinion the abused person is the primary concern, not what might or might not happen to others. So the first step would be to determine what is in the victim's best interest. Parents make that sort of decision for their children in my opinion unless they are incapable. If their decision is based on the reputation of a religious organisation, or the abuser's reputation or fear of retribution then that is clearly wrong.On the other hand certain agencies, at least in the UK, are legally obliged to report cases of suspected abuse to the Police. This will almost always prompt an investigation of some kind and would not normally result in Social Services removing children unless the Courts were of the view that this was in the child's interest. That's the theory anyway.

  Where adults are concerned I would say that it is always better for the victim to report the offence than someone else doing it for them without their consent. This gives them a measure of control back. Forcing people to go recall an offence in the formality of a Police Station without their proper consent is not helpful although it may prevent the offender from hurting other people I don't think that makes it ok to violate the victim's right to make their own choice.
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  47

  Ramapo denies Jehovah's Witnesses tax exemption

  by lrkr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20090503/news03/905030339&s=d&page=#pluckcomments.

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  this morning's paper- front page..

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  GromitSK

  If the level of help they report is acceptable for tax relief it seems to me pretty much anybody could apply for it. It seems to me disingenuous to claim to be serving the community and then preaching it is all up for destruction imminently. The humanitarian acts mentioned are no more than any right thinking atheist would do under the circumstances (especially the 9/11 example). Jeesh - the WTS make my stomach turn over.