Posts by Cadellin

29

evolution

by inbetween in

since my awakening from the mind control of the wts, it has been an exciting also frigthening journey of exploration and free thinking.. i would say, today i try to be open to anything, i ll go whatever direction facts show.

while i`m no scientist, i think i have a glue about the scientific method.

i also agree with the statemant, that some extraordinary claim needs extraordinary proof.. so far, it is a difficult question whether god exists or not, and probably in my lifetime i will not get a conclusive answer.. however, my concerns are about evolution, since even a confirmation of evolution does not necessarily exclude the existence of a god, it just proivdes an alternative explanation, in case there is no god.. even though i did not really read a book yet about evolution, i read other books of people, whose reasoning i can agree to, and they believe in evolution.. .

Cadellin

When I started exploring ideas beyond the realm of the WT, evolution was one of the first. What struck me--and I suspect you, too, inbetween--is how grossly misinformed I'd been from basing my beliefs on what the WT wrote, such as little gems like the Creation book.

As another poster has noted, it is absolutely necessary for you to start reading about the science of evolution. Coyne's book is absolutely fantastic. Another good one is Carl Zimmer's Evolution: the Triumph of an Idea, which is ideal for the lay person with little or no background in biology and might be easier for you, given that English is not your first language. Another good one is Prothero's Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters

Since you're interested in the idea of "missing links" (and be aware that the science community does not use that term since it is highly misleading; it's more favored by creationists and the popular media), you might read Carl Zimmer's At the Water's Edge, which is a detailed account of the evolution of whales. The number of so-called "missing links" or transitional species discovered in the cetacean family tree is startling and revealing about the general nature of how evolution works to produce morphological change.

Happy learning!!!

68

EX JW teen just signs with legendary producer!!!!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

it has been a long time since i have posted.

time heals much pain, and finally, my family and i have been able to move on with our life outside of jw land.. many of you became our friends, our support system, and you know very well our exit story...we were labeled, slandered and disfellowshipped for having questions regarding the date 607. we sent out letters exposing the elders and circuit overseer to over 200 families.

Cadellin

That is amazing! Your daughter is a very special and lucky person to have her dreams rescued like that -- and you are clearly a great mom! What a wonderful story--and please keep us posted as her career progresses!

90

More anti-apostate rhetoric from the Watchtower - are they running scared?

by cedars in

yes, the may 15th watchtower is now available for download from jw.org.. the final study article, on page 26, directs another salvo at apostates - and warns witnesses not to try arguing with them on the internet:.

indeed, we ought to move as far away from wrongdoing as possible and not see how close we can get to it without being overcome by sin.

for instance, we need to guard against succumbing to apostasy, a sin that would make us unfit to glorify god.

Cadellin

"Let us therefore have nothing to do with apostates or anyone who claims to be a brother but who is dishonoring God. This should be the case even if he is a family member."

This is the troubling part. What does "claim to be a brother" mean? It could easily be interpreted to mean someone who's not df'd--in fact, I would say that's the intent. So, even if a family member who's not df'd seems to be questioning the Society, we should "have nothing to do" w/him or her. This does appear to be a more entrenched position than has been the case up till recently. Someone started another thread about "unofficial" shunning and I have to say, I think that's becoming more the case. I have experienced that recently myself from a family member who is a Bethelite, someone I was very close to for most of my life but now is giving me the silent treatment, even though I've said nothing to that person overtly "apostate."

Yes, they're scared and as they become scared, they get more hard-line. Isn't that another feature of a cult?

97

Elder father sent me an email about Feb 2012 WT - my resposne

by TheStumbler in

i'm not sure if any of you will remember but i posted on here six months ago about a correspondence i was having with my dad, an elder, about who would die in armageddon.

i was asking some tough questions about children being killed in armageddon and i could tell he uncomfortable with the answers he was giving.. i drafted an email in resposne to his email but in the end i decided not to send it in the interest of maintaining friendly relations.. .

last week, out of the blue, my dad sent an email link to the february 2012 watchtower article about armageddon and said it would answer some of my questions.. here is my response which is a critique of the feb 2012 wt article and some of the broader ethics concerning 'armageddon'.

Cadellin

I think your email to your father is a brilliant piece of logic, using the WT's own words--and not taken out of context either! (I hate when the WT claims that apostates twist words and take them out of context when the WT is the biggest culprit in the known universe for doing that.)

This business of God reading hearts and not merely saving JWs is how reasonable JWs try to get around the undeniable official teaching of the WT that only those marked on the forehead as per Ezekiel will be saved. The mark is baptism as a JW and not just that, but living up to your baptism. Many years ago, when I was still pioneering and uber-zealous, our CO said something from the platform that made me shudder. He had us read the prophecy in Ezekiel about the man with the secretary's inkhorn who went around marking those who where sighing and crying over the detestable things being done. What happened after that? The angels with "smashing instruments," ie big hammers, went around smashing in skulls of anyone w/o the mark. You see, the mark is on the forehead so it's really easy to see and the angels won't be mistaken.

Then he said that if we ever felt we were losing our sense of urgency, we should go stand outside an elementary school playground for a while and just watch all the happy little children playing. THen we were to imagine the angels coming down with big hammers and smashing all their little heads in.

I'm not kidding. That was part of his talk from the platform (probably mid 1990's). I remember feeling slightly ill at the time, thinking (but suppressing) that something had to be wrong...

21

Journal of Philosophical Psychology cites JWs as an example of a self-validating belief system

by slimboyfat in

a recent article in the journal of philosophical psychology titled: 'how convenient!

the epistemic rationale of self-validating belief systems' by maarten boudry says that one of the defense mechanisms of self-validating belief systems is "multiple endpoints and moving targets" and cites jws to illustrate the point.

here are the sections that discuss jws:.

Cadellin

Right, and I would add that they are one of the more extreme cases.

24

Independent verification of Mexico Vs. Malawi

by Knowsnothing in

i posted on manki's crisis of conscience thread the following, and decided it deserves a thread of it's own (giving it was completely ignored, lol).

i'll give you a head start, manky.. http://tearsofoberon.blogspot.com/2009/10/mexico-military-and-jwsthe-truth.html.

under the subheading 6.0 lies and exaggerations, he goes on to say this:.

Cadellin

Bucholz, thanks for the info! So, did very many Mexican brothers obtain a "fake" cartilla? How was this whole thing viewed by JWs there? To me, the bribery was one thing but the carrying the cartilla that said the "brother" had completed his military training seemed somehow worse. Or am I misunderstanding?

21

Journal of Philosophical Psychology cites JWs as an example of a self-validating belief system

by slimboyfat in

a recent article in the journal of philosophical psychology titled: 'how convenient!

the epistemic rationale of self-validating belief systems' by maarten boudry says that one of the defense mechanisms of self-validating belief systems is "multiple endpoints and moving targets" and cites jws to illustrate the point.

here are the sections that discuss jws:.

Cadellin

Great find, slimboyfat!

the belief system of Jehovah's Witnesses has made use of the defense mechanism of multiple endpoints and deflationary revisions

I would add that this defense mechanism wouldn't work as well as it does were it not for the highly authoritarian structure of JW's belief system, which is enforced and re-enforced over relatively minor matters, like recreation (see, for example, last week's WT study) so that JWs become conditioned to accept "deflationary revisions" in major matters. When a potential crisis of belief in the form of failed prophecy occurs, they default to submission (of independent thoughts) and exultation (of whatever the "slave" says) that has been so thoroughly ingrained in them. For example, ask any JW about the recent change in "generation" and invariably they will trot out the old saw, "the light gets brighter" as a reflexive deflection any "disconfirmation," handily supplied by the "slave." So while the rationale of multiple endpoints and deflationary revisions is certainly at work, it rests on that foundation of unquestioning obedience and practiced rhetoric already in place.

I think "self-validating" refers to the process by which beliefs develop resilience and persevere. Those beliefs, as the author explains, that are flexible enough to allow for revisions of the kind described, have a better chance of surviving and, by surviving, tend to strengthen themselves in the minds of the believers. A great example is the latest "overlapping generation" of 1914. When the FDS gave that explanation as a way of rationalizing the seeming failure of its earlier definitions (deflationary revisionism at work), JWs were primed to go along with it because of their overall conviction that the generation of the last days/1914 must be a reality in some sense (to paraphrase the article) AND because of their conditioning, and so the belief about the generation of 1914 is reinforced for JWs, albeit in its revised form.

24

Independent verification of Mexico Vs. Malawi

by Knowsnothing in

i posted on manki's crisis of conscience thread the following, and decided it deserves a thread of it's own (giving it was completely ignored, lol).

i'll give you a head start, manky.. http://tearsofoberon.blogspot.com/2009/10/mexico-military-and-jwsthe-truth.html.

under the subheading 6.0 lies and exaggerations, he goes on to say this:.

Cadellin

While I think Franz is pretty scrupulous in CoC, and I have no valid reason to doubt him, I have wondered the same as Knowsnothing--are there any Mexican witnesses or ex-witnesses that know first hand about the cartilla thing? What's the current status, as well?

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Cadellin

I don't have the article in front of me at the moment, but I thought the WT's objection to using planetary location (aside from the fact that it would blow their theory out of the water) is that the names used for the planets were open to multiple interpretations and so (supposedly) b/c the planets could not be positively identified, they would be elided.

Sounds incredibly fishy and, no surprise, there's no evidence provided for multiple readings on the planet names.

37

Outright Misrepresentations of Quotes and Citations in Watchtower Literature

by Londo111 in

the research of doug mason, annomaly, and others have been eye opening in regards to the society's recent articles on 607 bc.

what i find most disturbing is the misrepresentations of scholars, who are quoted in such a way to say one thing, when they meant something completely different.

it is one thing to teach a doctrine, and quite another to play fast and loose with the truth.

Cadellin

You also might want to check out this thread

The newish Origin of Life brochure is rife with logical fallacies and out-of-context quotes.