Posts by Cadellin

31

New layout feels very chaotic

by EndofMysteries in

i don't really know how to describe the feeling but i'll give examples, but the new layout to me makes it feel tiring being on for too long.

1. there is the top menu, then a big add between that and the next part, a big ad between the bottom and where you reply, then on the right column you either have 2 ads on top or some type of summary, then ad, then either related posts or other areas.

there are no borders, the adds have the same color and text type but larger font, and it all seems chaotically merged into one thing where you need to constantly sort out what you are viewing.

Cadellin

First, I absolutely appreciate Simon's tireless work creating and maintaining this forum. But I'm finding it a little disorienting. I liked the grid lines from before, and found it easier to see in a glance how many pages, views, etc. Sorry I'm not being more specific.

54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

Cadellin

That is a disturbing picture.

JW's even have a unique phrase to describe this slippery, nonsensical view: "present truth." I actually had a convo with my mother some time ago about the generation of 1914 having all passed away and she maintained, quite emphatically, that the Society wasn't wrong about that prediction because it had been "present truth" at that time. The fact that the events did not happen as predicted was irrelevant because it was the correct understanding at that time. Now, "present truth" consists of something else (even weirder, ironically, that of the overlapping business) and so that is entirely correct, now, just as the previous understanding was entirely correct at that, and for that, time. This circular reasoning (if that's what it is) completely short-circuited her ability to think through this to the logical conclusion: If that's how "truth" works, then the word is meaningless.

Orwell's Ministry of Truth has nothing on this.

42

Creationism emails from a JW

by TheStumbler in

earlier this year, i received an email from a jw family member with a link to this video:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ruhkgqjug.

i wrote a long reply debunking the video (mostly copying talkorigins info).

Cadellin

Great job with the (long) reply. Interestingly, all of the creationist claims that you adroitly dismantle are so old that they are themselves fossils! They've been debunked (most of them, anyway) so many times that any creationist that keeps repeating them is so sorely out of touch with the current state of the conversation that it probably would do little good to respond. It's the same way with the supposed evidence or rationale that the WT offers to support creationism.

One of the pieces missing from the conversation is the genetic evidence in support of natural selection and common descent. The ability to reconstruct whole genomes, including the reconstruction of ancient dna has been a gamechanger and for anyone with even a small amount of critical thinking skills is the final nail in creationism's coffin. The argument about a lack of transitional fossils is, as you point out, completely baseless but is rendered even more specious by the genetic transitions within species' genomes. Thus, it is possible to reconstruct the entire evolutionary history of, for example, cetaceans, when the abundant fossil record is matched with dna evidence that points, very clearly, to whales' nearest living relative as the hippo, or, to take another example, indicates pretty clearly that neanderthals were a separate species from ourselves. Moreover, the existence of pseudo genes that point to physical features once used by a species but now rendered obsolete is another form of transitional evidence not reliant upon an imperfect fossil record. Using the whale example, this can be seen by the fact that whales have the olofactory genes of a land animal, something completely unnecessary and perplexing if you believe in special creation, but completely understandable if you look at its origins as a land mammal.

70

DINOSAURS - What do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe?

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

as part of my deconversion catharsis, i have been building a(nother) website to highlight some of the more ridiculous jw beliefs.

im a looong way from done, but i wanted some early feedback on one article: dinosaurs.

http://www.jwbeliefs.com/dinosaurs/.

Cadellin

There is a lot of evidence that man existed with dinosaurs.

James, I would enjoy seeing some. The WT's misrepresentation of scientific matters is what prompted me to examine radiometric dating on my own, as well as evolution and the role of fossils. The facts regarding dinosaurs and tapproximate era(s) of extinction are pretty well-substantiated. In the Wild West World of unshackled, freeflowing online material, it behooves one to be somewhat skeptical of information dramatically at odds with the consensus of credible researchers in a given field. Just sayin.

70

DINOSAURS - What do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe?

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

as part of my deconversion catharsis, i have been building a(nother) website to highlight some of the more ridiculous jw beliefs.

im a looong way from done, but i wanted some early feedback on one article: dinosaurs.

http://www.jwbeliefs.com/dinosaurs/.

Cadellin

But googling mens drawings of dinosaurs led to the above link with a lot of evidence.

James, does any of that evidence come from scholarly scientific journals or universities? It has been proven, in every sense of the word, that dinosaurs died out millions of years before Homo appeared on the scene. That is to say, dinosaurs as we think of them today--massive lizard-like creatures. However, there is substantial evidence to indicate that dinosaurs' descendants are still alive and well...

Birds are the living descendants of dinosaurs

551

Officer Wilson not indicted in killing of Michael Brown

by Simon in

after a thorough investigation and weighing of the evidence the grand jury has decided not to indict the officer.. the reaction so far seems as predicted - people refuse to accept that the result represents justice despite claims that is what they wanted.. there is now violence and vandalism, including gunshots.

let's hope the police contain the troublemakers.. .

Cadellin

After watching nonstop news coverage on a variety of stations, what strikes me is how uniformly mainstream media is subtly (and maybe not so subtly) disapproving of the no-indict verdict. The media's job is to present the facts, not take sides. Okay, I'm naive. But I have to wonder how much the media is feeding the chaos and the public frenzy to destroy Wilson.

In particular, interview after interview (of the Brown parents, Brown's friend, Brown's attorneys, etc. suggest where the media sympathies lie and, moreover, focus on "how did the decision make you feel?" (stupid question) or "Do you believe Darren Wilson's testimony?" (ditto), and make little or no reference to the forensic evidence. In a case like this, it's all a jury has to go on. Otherwise, it comes down to he said/she said between all the witnesses. And from what I understand, the forensic evidence was pretty clear and supported Wilson's account, as well as the account of (some) of the other witnesses. Moreover, the media is completely ignoring the fact that Brown is on camera committing the strongarm robbery literally moments before the fatal altercation. He has proven himself to be a thug with little fear of retribution. It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to visualize him carrying that stance forward to the moment he meets Wilson.

It chills me how solidly masses of people are coming down on the side of an out-of-control thug and rejecting the testimony of a police officer, when the evidence supports the police officer, as does their patterns of behavior leading up to the altercation. What does this portend? I can see police officers pulling back from using force in the future, for fear of being in the same situation as Wilson. I can see more officers being murdered in the line of duty. I can see good men and women choosing other careers because of the unrealistic standards and potentially abusive situations they will be subject to as an officer.

Something else: This situation has so dramatically deepened the color breach in this country. You see white journalists (albeit mouthing support for the protestors, directly or indirectly), white police offers, and then black protestors, black family members, black attorneys. Why haven't any black police officers spoken up publicly in support of their brother Darren Wilson? Why haven't any intellectuals spoken out publicly for the rule of law? Why has the impetus of mob force (which is what all of this is) silenced any other voice? I know why in part--because if you're white, you're terrified of being perceived as racist. And to say the wrong thing in the wrong place is to be labelled.

It's all so sad.

43

WT Study Article Nov. 23, 2014--Adam understood "day" to be 24 hours

by Cadellin in

interesting admission in today's wt: adam may have understood "day" (as in "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die") to be a literal 24-hour period.

i don't think the wt has ever said this before; the usual emphasis is that jah meant it as a figurative day, a day from his standpoint which is 1,000 years (and the article does state that, later).. however, if adam understood god's warning to be carried out in a 24 hour period, and god did nothing to alleviate that, then who did the lying?

actually, regardless of adam's understanding, the question still stands but moving toward an admission of the use of day in that context to be 24-hours only makes the question even more valid.

Cadellin

Interesting admission in today's WT: Adam may have understood "day" (as in "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die") to be a literal 24-hour period. I don't think the WT has ever said this before; the usual emphasis is that Jah meant it as a figurative day, a day from his standpoint which is 1,000 years (and the article does state that, later).

However, if Adam understood God's warning to be carried out in a 24 hour period, and God did nothing to alleviate that, then who did the lying? Actually, regardless of Adam's understanding, the question still stands but moving toward an admission of the use of day in that context to be 24-hours only makes the question even more valid. The article tries to explain things by saying that God mercifully allowed Adam to Eve to live longer in order to have children, but that doesn't change the plain fact that it was God lying, not Satan.

Satan said three things would happen if they ate: (1) Eyes opened; (2) Be like God; (3) You will not die. He didn't add any kind of temporal aspect to the last, but it would be understood in the same way that God's threat would be understood. According to the WT, in this article, it would be understood as a 24-hour day. And what happened? Each of the three things took place, exactly as Satan said they would. Moreover, God's words later in Ch. 3 of Genesis imply that Adam and Even wouldn't die AT ALL if God didn't take action to prevent them from eating of the Tree of Life.

No, I don't believe that Genesis is a literal history. My point here is that the WT's interpretation just doesn't fit the account as it is written, and is another example of eisegesis at its finest.

13

Does Bethel have any woman Medical Doctors?

by VM44 in

the watchtower does not usually place women in positions of authority.. so, does anyone know if there have been any female medical doctors (any type, md, do or chiro) that worked at bethel recently?.

the only one that i know of was dr mae j work, but she was at bethel over 70 years ago!.

.

Cadellin

Until a male doctor came (in the mid of the 90's) the "Overseer" was a guy from the adminstration-department.

Under American licensure law, that would be illegal. A professional cannot be subordinate to a non-professional in matters of expertise/practice. Of course, I doubt the WT cares about such trivialities of Caesar's law and has some way of getting around it, in case anyone checked. But it, in theory, could raise interesting questions--if the non-prof brother wanted things done a certain way, the professional sister would be jeopardizing her license to go along with it, if it was not in the best interests of a patient or the medical practice.

Stupid hierarchy.

24

Tight Pants Tony Made The News

by thedepressedsoul in

if you go to google and just type in, jehovah witness about 10 different articles pop up about tonys comment with the gays wanting men in tight pants!

i didnt play with any other google words yet but comment is getting a lot of publicity!.

he done goofed on that one!.

Cadellin

I think these news articles are hilarious. Tony sounds like an idiot. And I guess I wasn't clear on what he was complaining about, so I googled "metrosexual look" and this is what I got:

REALLY? This is what he's all in a tizzy about? Seriously? Personally, the mermaid think these boys look mighty fine. But honestly, who in their right mind would give this a second thought when you've got guys dresses like THIS (below) on the loose? (BTW, no tight pants there, so they must be God-approved). And lest you think I'm talking nothing but fashion here, my point is that Tony's diatribe about sleek suits on buff boys is ridiculous in any context but in the context of the crazies currently loose in our world, is even more out of touch than it would ordinarily be...

443

Zone Visit: An Announcement That Will "Test Your Faith"

by breakfast of champions in

this is the scuttlebutt in one of the "bethel congregations" by us.. no details as to exactly what this "faith-testing" announcement might be.. anyone else hear any of this pre-zone visit hype?.

.

Cadellin

Fessing up about the rash of child abuse lawsuits is a possibility, IMHO. Of course, that's "fessing" up WT style, which means putting the Satan Spin on it. It would be a huge deal for the WT to actually mention it from the platform but this particular zone/branch visit, being for the US would be a good time, since there are so many/such large US suits recently. And the WT know that JWs google stuff--it's inevitable that eventually enough publishers will read the suits that it could become a problem.

A good offense...