Posts by Cadellin

28

Has all life descended from a common ancestor? Watchtowers view

by DS211 in

many scientists point to the fossil record as support for the idea that life emerged from a common origin.

new features appear suddenly.

would it be reasonable to assert that your preconceived idea of the movie was right because of the five frames?

Cadellin

This article is simply one of the two brochures on Creation that were released a few years ago. Like most things published by the WTS on this topic, it is a breathtakingly misleading mixture of snippets of quotes taken out of context and vague and/or just plain erroneous commentary on them. Here's a great example:

For example, in 2009 an article in New Scientist magazine quoted evolutionary scientist Eric Bapteste as saying: “We have no evidence at all that the tree of life is a reality.” 30 The same article quotes evolutionary biologist Michael Rose as saying: “The tree of life is being politely buried, we all know that. What’s less accepted is that our whole fundamental view of biology needs to change

If you read this article in the full, as is easy to do online, you will quickly see that Rose's and Bapteste's comments are made specifically about single-celled organisms. In fact, the article later says that when it comes to multi-cellular, more complex life forms (like cats and rats and elephants--and humans), the multi-branching Tree of Life is still the best way to picture relationships. So why can these two scientists make such seemingly sweeping statements about unicellular life? Because the vast, vast majority of life on this planet is unicellular. Species visible to the human eye are an anomaly, statistically speaking.

Moreover, a close reading of this article actually suggests something exactly opposite to the Genesis account. Rather than implying that various "kinds" (whatever the hell that means) are not related at all, due to separate origins, scientists are finding that unicellular life is often related both vertically and horizontally--that rather than being a Tree of Life, it's more like a tangled Vine of Life, due to various weird strategies like horizontal gene transfer. In fact, in some odd cases, the vine metaphor even extends to multicellular organisms. For instance, we all carry around with us ancient viral DNA.

This grossly inaccurate WTS article is one of the things that really sealed my exit. I took the time to read some (admittedly not all, but enough) of the sources and was shocked by how badly the quotes were taken out of context and the basic ideas of the original material misrepresented.

130

Questions on Evolution and the Existence of God and...

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

i know this is one huge rant, but i want to put my own questions and doubts in writing.. i am a fading jw who has become agnostic... i still believe in "god" and "jesus," but i simply cannot explain to people why i believe in them.

i just do.. about the existence of god: it is an infinite regress.

"all things were created by someone"... well... who created god?

Cadellin

Greetings, Chemical Engineer:

You've already received some good responses here, esp. from Cyrus but because I am who I am, I'll put in my two cents as well:

1. If evolution says that only the best survive, and we humble humans, self-named Homo Sapiens Sapiens, are the most intelligent species on this planet, why aren't we the ONLY species?

We weren't the only species of hominin, up until around 18,000 years ago. For the vast majority of the genus Homo's tenure (1.5 million years or so), there have been multiple species co-existing. That is the norm. So what made the difference? Hard to say, except that Homo sapiens as a species seem to be very, very good at getting rid of competitors. Still, we co-existed alongside Homo neanderthalensis for about 160,000 years. The simple answer is that we just don't know for sure why we're the only ones left.

As Cyrus and others pointed out, the species that survive are the ones best able to adapt to a changing environment. Intelligence doesn't have a whole lot to do with it, up until a point. At a certain point in H. sapien's past, we started being able to control our environment, rather than the other way around. That was a significant turning point in our ability to cope/adapt/thrive on a fickle planet.

Has actual evolution, i.e. the changes accumulating sufficiently to make ANOTHER species, been observed? If so, where? I would think that the smaller the species/the faster time to reproduce, the better chances to actually observe this.

I think you already answered this question in an earlier post. Remember that "species" as a term is an invented concept with discrete boundaries, superimposed onto a natural phenomenon that is fuzzy around the edges, as things tend to be in the biological world.

What you need to do is read a few good books, like Stephen Coyne's Why Evolution is True, Carl Zimmer's Evolution--the Triumph of an Idea, Richard Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale (well, anything by Dawkins, really. The Blind Watchmaker, River out of Eden, Climbing Mount Improbable) or Prothero's Evolution: What the Fossils Say. Fortey's Life--A Natural History of The First Four Billion Years is also good.

43

Carrie Underwood tweets, thanking God for successful Sound of Music performance

by adamah in

after a live 3 hour performance, the "american idol" winner tweets,.

"glory to god tonight...i couldn't be more proud.

what a tough thing to pull off and we did it!

Cadellin

If that's how she performs with God's help, God help her (more).

Underwood was simply embarassing. She wore an expression of mild confusion, relieved occasionally by pleased confusion. That was it. No spark, no energy, no inflection, no humor. Her singing was so-so. It was painful. As Joan Rivers tweeted, one of Underwood's favorite things should be someone who'd never seen Julie Andrews in the role.

The kids were really good, the Baroness was good, Max and the captain were okay, the nuns were splendid.

12

Glaring terminological inexactitudes in this week's Watchtower study farticle!!

by Island Man in

check out the watchtower's erroneous definitions/descriptions of evolution and creationism in paragraphs 2 and 3 respectively on page 7 of the october 15, 2013 watchtower:.

"in its basic form, the teaching of evolution asserts that all life came into existence spontaneously.

"on the other hand, fundamentalists of christendom teach that the universe, including our earth and all life on it, is only a few thousand years old.

Cadellin

Evolution, in its simplest terms, refers to a change in the gene pool of a species. That's it. As a scientific theory, it does not directly address origin of life questions. It does what a scientific theory is supposed to do: Explain a range of physical phenomenon. However, in order for natural selection to work (for a change in the gene pool to spread throughout a species), life at some early point had to have the capacity to (1) adapt and (2) pass on changes to subsequent generations. It seems reasonable that these commonalities would have arisen very very early.

"Spontaneous" in this WT "definition" of evolution will lead to JWs imagining a modern cell popping into existence all on its own. I virtually guarantee that's what will be in most Witness minds when this is studied. Yet the fact of the matter is that any "spontaneous" generation of life would have happened over hundreds of millions of years and the very first stages would likely have been nothing that we would identify as life in the modern sense. Interestingly (as a side point), it seems that life appeared relatively early in earth's timeline)

This (horribly inaccurate and misleading) WT also descrives evolution as "human reasoning." This is a trigger phrase, shutting down critical examination or reflection, since it immediately "brands" the notion as human "philosophy" which is tantamount to "teachings of demons." The fact is that Newton's Laws of Motion are "human reasoning," just as Einstein's Theory of Relativity, theories of electromagnetism, economic theories of supply and demand, etc. These are all "human reasonings" supported by (in the case of evolution) literally reams of diverse yet convergent evidence from genetics, geology, paleontology, zoology, and a host of other fields that I cannot summon at the moment, and proven over and over and over by new discoveries.

It's terribly ironic that the WT is pointing fingers at young earth creationists when they themselves are just another flavor--old earth creationists and the evidence for an old earth (which JWs believe) overlaps with the same evidence for evolution (which they reject). The belief in six literal days of creation is just as farcical as the belief in figurative creative days lasting "thousands" of years, as JWs believe, since both camps are rejecting evidence that, in this year 2013, is as close to irrefutable as we can get.

139

Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

by rawe in

has anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?

what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.

if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.

Cadellin

God, no.

No pun intended.

15

February 2014- Watchtower Public edition now available!

by A.proclaimer in

the new watchtower public edition titled "the war that chnaged the world" and the awake titled "how to invest your time wisely" for february are up.

looks like they are still sticking to 1914. they do talk about the war and tie it in with the 1914 interpretation.. watchtower public:.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20140201/.

Cadellin

The WT's strategy is curious, if desperate. There is no doubt that WWI, WWII and the Spanish Flu were among the worst disasters to hit humanity. But the WT conveniently ignores the fact that since the end of WWII, which was approx 70 YEARS AGO, the world has entered a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity, also known as the Pax Americana. So, they have no choice but to cling to WWI and the Sp Fl as signs of the times, b/c they have precious little else to which to point.

You'll notice in the sidebar on the Ride of the Four Horsemen, that they simply offer broad numbers (70 million people died from hunger, etc.) without--as usual--offering any context, the context being the fact that more people were alive during the 20th cen. than any other time in history, mostly because they WERENT dying of pestilence, food shortages and other disasters like they had been in earlier times. It's interesting that the WT does use the term "localized" to describe warfare since WWII. Also no mention of the fact that there are now more people overweight on the planet than malnourished.

19

Will The Noah Movie Wake Some Up to TTATT?

by jw07 in

jw
friends

the trailer for the noah blockbuster has been released (even superman and thor are more believable myths).. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frtlt3deydu.

many jws on my facebook page are clamoring to go see it believe it or not.

others are pointing out the 'inconsistencies' with watchtower doctrine.. having something visualized and plainly layed out before you is useful when dealing with unthinking persons.. do you think that seeing it will help some jws to crtitically think about things they have read and glossed over?

Cadellin

Yadda Yadda: Love it. I need to remember that quote.

Okay, this trailer really got to me--talk about conflicted feelings! On the one hand, Russell Crowe--Oh, baby.

On the other hand, the sheer ridiculousness of the Noah account, plus how it's so obviously a compilation of two different renderings, was one of the things that led to my leaving this religion. So seeing this movie would be rather like...what's a good simile? Watching your worst enemy drive off a cliff in your new car? That's terrible, but you get my point. If the Noah account were true, which it is obviously, flamingly not, I'd like it to be with Russell Crowe and everyone dressed like Hunger Games extras and thousands of birds and snakes. Cool.

32

Overheard some JWs on the train today- going to be interesting this year

by lrkr in

cruising down to the city this afternoon we were behind a group of j-dubs on the train.

part of the conversation centered around the "generation" teaching.

all of them clearly trying to wrap their heads around it.

Cadellin

The most overused word in the WT lexicon: Soon

11

NEW BOE - reporting tracts placement

by WatchTower87 in

http://adf.ly/zgljp .

good read ;).

Cadellin

Their new tactic/message is: Simplify, Simplify, Simplify!

Translation: Cheap, Cheap, Cheap!

55

MAJOR DOCTRINE CHANGE IN 1/15/2014 WT ON GENERATION TEACHING

by EndofMysteries in

the generation scripture no longer is speaking about 'the end'.

i'll quote it...... side note: tons of lies in this article, i'll point out at the end of the post.

"yet, jesus words at matthew 24:34 give us confidence that at least some of "this generation will by no means pass away" before seeing the start of the great tribulation.".

Cadellin

Bottom line (simplified edition): They (WT/GB/FDS) don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Jesus' words were very simple: The folks that heard his prophecy would see the end of it. About 37 years later (according to what we have in Gospel form today), Jerusalem was destroyed. Less than a 40-year literal Biblical generation. That's it.

Today, the WT is trying desperately to keep the end game alive and they have to snatch at theological straws to do so. They're kicking the eschatological can down the road and the next generation of GB (no pun intended) will have to come up with a new spin when, once more, their prophecy fails to materialize.

Sigh.

What I can't fathom is that so many long-time JWs are still continuing to buy this nonsense.