Sapphy

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Posts by Sapphy

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  59

  The Great Tribulation soon?

  by Kosonen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have looked at youtube on interesting topics.

  i wrote also to all 129 bethel-homes around the world and suggested them to search on youtube on illuminati, freemasons, 666, new world order, fema coffins, fema concentration camps, rfid chip, rockefeller, antichrist.. very interesting stuff!

  i suggest you also to search on "the third temple" could soon to be built in jerusalem.

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  Sapphy

  uh oh, I've just realised... we've become ridiculars with our ridicule!!!
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  59

  The Great Tribulation soon?

  by Kosonen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  recently i have looked at youtube on interesting topics.

  i wrote also to all 129 bethel-homes around the world and suggested them to search on youtube on illuminati, freemasons, 666, new world order, fema coffins, fema concentration camps, rfid chip, rockefeller, antichrist.. very interesting stuff!

  i suggest you also to search on "the third temple" could soon to be built in jerusalem.

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  Sapphy

  Someone wake me up when reports are heard of people selling their homes to spend the remaining time serving where the need is great.
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  22

  Convention talk 2010 ...

  by iknowall558 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  aulani alohajehovah's witness mind diddling testamonials: this is insane!

  outline of a 2010 district convention talk from the symposium, "remain in .

  the secret place of the most high".

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  Sapphy

  Dear Bethel Brothers,

  Since 1994/5, when the generation that saw 1914 passed away, many have been waiting patiently on Jehovah for a new explanation of "that generation". Our expectations were not high. Even something vaguely coherent would do. So far you've told us that 'that generation' are any of the wicked and twisted generation who see the begining or end of the 'Lords day' or any anointed ones living at any point during the Lords day. Now, 'evidently' "that generation" refers to the generation who saw the generation who saw 1914 (anointed class). How the hell are we meant to sell this on the doors?

  Please. If you don't know just say nothing. Please stop making s*** up.

  Yours (in body not mind)

  Concious Class
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  15

  A few questions about Adam and Eve, Death, and the Resurrection

  by alfmel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am not a jw, but they often come to my door.

  i listen to them, formulate questions, but they can never answer them to my satisfaction.

  that's why i've never become a jw.

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  Sapphy

  Welcome alfmel - I'm sure you'll get a few answers but I don't think anyone on here will try and persuade you to become a Witness!

  why did God place the tree of knowledege of good and evil in the garden, therefore allowing man to destroy the original plan of God?

  JW answer - The tree was a loving provision enabling a physical means by which Adam and Eve could demonstrate their wholehearted obedience and loyalty. By not presumtiously taking the fruit they would have shown their contentment with the divine gifts they had been given. At some later date God may have chosen to allow them to partake of both the tree of knowledge and the tree of life.

  However, Adam and Eve had bodies of flesh and bones, but we will resurrect with spiritual bodies.

  JW answer - God will resurrect the vast majority to everlasting life in paradise on earth with physical bodies. Only a small number will be resurected to heaven to rule in the kingdom with Jesus.

  My answers - The Eden shenanigans is an ancient legend explaining why bad things happen to good people. The second answer is one of many answers to the question "what happens when we die". No-one really knows.
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  23

  Would the Watchtower Society be Republican or Democrat, if it were political?

  by Quillsky in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i believe it's very republican in its outlook..

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  Sapphy

  Communist.

  Figurehead President = rutherford, knorr, franz

  Politburo = governing body

  KGB = Service dept

  Ministry of Propaganda = Writing committee

  Exile to Siberia = disfellowship

  Great emphasis on 'working in the field'

  All are equal / no titles, meanwhile in reality there's an authoritarian hierachy...

  etc
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  22

  Convention talk 2010 ...

  by iknowall558 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  aulani alohajehovah's witness mind diddling testamonials: this is insane!

  outline of a 2010 district convention talk from the symposium, "remain in .

  the secret place of the most high".

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  Sapphy

  The way the talk presents it is as if there is some kind of apostolic sucession from freddy franz generation to the modern day anointed.

  You're not part of that generation if you didn't shake freddy's hand!!

  Actually the bit that annoyed me most was the use of the word 'correspondingly', for two concepts that do not correspond.
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  55

  generation teaching reconsidered

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was thinking about this new generation teaching, and to some extend it makes sense, let me explain.. first of all, i personally believe, it only applied to jesus time, it only made sense there, and when jesus talked about it, in the year 33, this generation certainly observed the events leading to jerusalems destruction 70 ce.

  ( even though the context does not really give much hint, since he talks about the sign of the son of man being seen in heaven etc, something that did not happen in the first century).

  the main question is, what is a generation ?.

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  Sapphy

  stilla - they'd be nuts to try and apply types/anti-types to this. In Christian theology the type is the old testement character or event, and the antitype is the christian reflection or fulfilment. I suppose they could cast the destruction of Jerusalem as the type and Armageddon as the antitype but it's a stretch. They'd be better off with playing up the Noahic parallels - more coherent.

  But when you think that it is still current witness doctrine that Russsel and Rutherford are the antitypes of Elijah and Elisha, well it is to laugh...

  (or is it Rutherford and Knorr?)
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  26

  Wasted life.

  by Heartofaboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my parents are in their 80's.. they have been jw's since the late 1950's.. they both have serious misgivings about the way the organisation is going & they feel lost.. however it has been a damned hard struggle over all those years being jw's & raising a family in the 'truth' & they do not feel they can turn their back on it.. what can i say to help them?

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  Sapphy

  If they're in their 80's and can't or don't want to leave, maybe you could help them be positive about their own Christianity?

  Ray Franz' In search of Christian Freedom would be excellent if they would read it. It doesn't do anything for me but it is incredibly useful for ex-witnesses who want to remain in the non-trinitarian christian ethos.

  Just reassure them that you know they did their very best for you and your siblings.

  The wasted life feeling is very difficult, most of us suffer from it! But try to get them to concentrate on the good they've done for others. I'm sure they were hospitable, helped others where they could, contributed to a community feeling in the congregation. etc.
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  17

  Do they still have to go from door to door and fill out field service report

  by eileenpage in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my husband, daughter and myself walked away from jws 20 years ago so we have lost touch with latest teachings.

  my husbands family are still jws.

  one of my daughter's cousin aged 26years and just married is phoning our daughter up trying to get her back inot the wt society.

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  Sapphy

  Hi eileenpage - you've been out 20 years, I remember 20 years ago, and it's the SSDD.

  Major changes - they abolished the book study. Generation of 1914 has passed away, and they're still dancing around trying to explain it. Blood fractions are allowed, components are not.

  Field service reporting is still mandatory and they will chase your for your report relentlessly.

  Disfellowshipping is alive and well.

  College education is still a big no-no.

  Elders still rule the roost.

  Sisters still clean everything.

  Subjection and headscarves are still around.
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  55

  generation teaching reconsidered

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was thinking about this new generation teaching, and to some extend it makes sense, let me explain.. first of all, i personally believe, it only applied to jesus time, it only made sense there, and when jesus talked about it, in the year 33, this generation certainly observed the events leading to jerusalems destruction 70 ce.

  ( even though the context does not really give much hint, since he talks about the sign of the son of man being seen in heaven etc, something that did not happen in the first century).

  the main question is, what is a generation ?.

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  Sapphy

  You could say, his generation died 1995.So its obviuos, that the lifespan of people of one generation does overlap, and even extend the timeframe of one generation.

  There are two parts to that, 1) "the lifespan of people of one generation does overlap". Yes it does, a generation lives and dies at roughly the same time. 2) "even extend the timeframe of one generation", I would argue a single outlier doesn't extend 'a generation'. Jack and Johns generation ends when the majority of people from Jack and John's generation are dead.

  I'm sure there must be an 140 year woman living in uzbeckistan who credits yaks milk and white tea for her longevity, but would anyone seriously argue that the generation of 1870 has not passed away?

  lets compare John born 1910 with Sam born 1930. Are they from the same generation ? If Sam is still alive, does it mean the generation of John is still in existance ?

  Are they from the same generation? No they are not. John lived through the first world war, the depression and probably fought in the second world war, leaving his wife and young children at home. Sam was building fix-it toy airplanes during the second world war, benefited from the post war boom and got married in the mid-1950s.

  If you think a generation can cover those born in a 20 year period, think of a generation mid-point and use yourself as an example. Think of someone 10 years older than yourself, are they of your generation? They finished high school before you started it, they may have finished college before you started high school. They listened to different music, watched different films. Different world events shaped their perspective. Now think of someone 10 years younger than you. The same things apply but you're the 'grownup'. Now ask yourself , is the person 10 years younger of the same generation as the person 10 years older than yourself? Quite frankly no.

  Whatever way you cut it, the generation of 1914 is dead.

  So now, to leave 1914 with any credibility they have to bring in the overlapping doctrine. And for the overlapping doctrine to make any sense, - and I use the word loosely - it has to refer to contemporaries, not generations. And contemporaries in the broadest sense, i.e. anointed brother Tom born in 1914 lives to see his descendant young anointed brother Tim born in 2010.

  The overlappping doctrine gives them to about 2100.

  Evidently Jesus meant this. Apparently.

  Thanks for making me think Inbetween!