Posts by superpunk

145

GETTING SUCKED IN? Ask the right questions to get the right answers.

by Terry in

it is too easy to get sucked in to the wrong argument at the wrong time.. asking the wrong question leads to the wrong answer.

a wrong answer does nobody any real good.. i once had a heated discussion with an old friend who is still an active jehovah's witness.. he came back at me with this:.

"okay, then--if jehovah's organization is a false religion, where is the true one?

superpunk

And if you take the KJV (Received Text) bible the authoratative text book, you'll have no problem with definitions.

Who deemed it authoritative?

And by the way, what is wrong with branches of Christianity? The New Testament (Contract) is between Jesus and individuals, not congregations. There is vast unity among the different branches that accept Christ as sole Mediator and his blood the sole justifier.

There is also vast disunity among the branches, on many of the most core doctrines of Christianity. Definitions will vary - any attempt to nail them down in some encyclopedia wouls be futile.

145

GETTING SUCKED IN? Ask the right questions to get the right answers.

by Terry in

it is too easy to get sucked in to the wrong argument at the wrong time.. asking the wrong question leads to the wrong answer.

a wrong answer does nobody any real good.. i once had a heated discussion with an old friend who is still an active jehovah's witness.. he came back at me with this:.

"okay, then--if jehovah's organization is a false religion, where is the true one?

superpunk

This really is a good thread, I'm glad it came back to life. Definitions seem to be the problem here. Has a christian out there somewhere ever thought about putting out a dictionary with christian meanings, because the meaning of words that I am used to apparently don't fit in that world.

It would be a pointless endeavor. The 30,000 branches of Christianity exist for the very reason that they cannot come to an agreement among themselves on the definitions of these Christian concepts, and they don't appear to be even slightly embarassed by it.

29

Why is it necessary that God be good?

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

if there is a sb (supreme being), there really isn't any logical necessity that it would conform in any manner to what we call "good".

it simply isn't a requirement, and yet for religious people it simply must be that god is good.. .

i wonder if it's love or fear, which causes people to cling to this idea.. .

superpunk

First we would have prove the existence of god and the question would then answer itself.

Good point.

The first step in answering the thread question may very well be;

"Why is it necessary that God be?"

It may be nothing more than a societal character flaw, filling a hole in certain people's personality with a good story, and a hope for something more.

322

God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff in

a few weeks back, in the midst of the haiti tragedy, much discussion took place in cyberland about the tolerance [or indeed the insistence on] suffering by a loving god.

the furor over haiti has settled a bit [as unfortunately most tragedy is wont to do far too quickly in the human mind], but this persistent matter continues to chew at my subconscience.

today i came across this:.

superpunk

Either God doesn't exist and matter appeared out of nothing, or we aren't good.

You're joking, right?

18

Need help with how to respond to my husband

by doublelife in

jw
friends

so i went though the whole 'generation' issue with my husband and i got him to admit that the "new light" does not make since.

but he just shrugged it off and said that the society has been wrong about other things so it's no a big deal.

the governing body are imperfect.

superpunk

It sounds like right now your husband just wants to be a JW.

You can only leave when the cost of leaving is less than the cost of staying (whatever that might be). It's different for each of us.

To me, it sounds like your husband doesn't really care about any *reasons* why the JWs are right or wrong. He simply *knows* that they're right, and so he is amplifying the bits he agrees with, while downplaying the bits he disagrees with as unimportant.

Even if you tear apart the war excuse, he'll just say that isn't important, either. Something else suddenly becomes the really important reason why they are the true religion.

45

email fwd from my mom: utter BS..bet the sheeple eat this crap up and MY REACTION

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

i received this crap from my jw mom today.

i hope it doesn't "encourage" you to go back .

you see, when i left, i immediately felt the relief of not being burned all the time by all of the gossip that occurs within the congregations, circuits, etc.

superpunk

OH IT'S SO MOVING.

I just barfed.

17

Idolization of the Watchtower logo! in March WT

by Gayle in

jw
friends

http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=8694.0.

superpunk

It actually seems like that is their "placeholder" for all online media, rather than a scan of the actual picture that would have appeared there. The caption is obviously describing something completely different.

392

If God Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know what the witness response is to this but what do you say now?.

superpunk

So, the bottom line is: who knows?

I think so, yes - if you want to retain a belief in some sort of God, energy, or first cause.

Viewing God as an invention of his authors, his creators, we see so many logical disconnects between the idea that God is good and cares about us, and the reality in the world. This is easily observable by modern man, who has time and the means to think about these things. But that wasn't a problem for the audience that books like the bible were originally intended for. They were intended for savage people who liked the idea that God was on their side and he ordained their murderous ways and even blessed them for being genocidal. They had a very tiny world and the bible's explanations were satisfactory for most of them.

Now we know better. The Orthodoxy figured this out quite some time ago, and realized that if you were going to have faith in God, you were only allowed to question so far - at that point it becomes mandatory for "faith" to take over, and you must be satisfied with the fact that "it's a mystery".

It's a phrase maligned by the Dubs, but IMO it is the ONLY way to maintain a faith in some mystical sky daddy. You can only use your powers of reason in order to conclude that God is good, he loves us, and everything is going to be peachy. If your powers of reason lead anywhere else - suspend them immediately, declare it a mystery, and call it a day.

392

If God Truly Cared About People Wouldn't He DO SOMETHING By Now?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know what the witness response is to this but what do you say now?.

superpunk

Then you also have to accept that you can't make any positive assertions about him. You can't say he's good. You can't say he loves us, or that he cares about us in any way. Religious texts become almost meaningless, except to teach us about our history as a societ, and be clever fables and interesting fairy tales.

But you can't have your cake and eat it too, rationally. You can't claim all the good things about God in the bible, then when confronted with things that are indefensible, plead "It's a mystery".

64

Do You Accept ALL Of The Bible As Being 100% Truth?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you believe the bible is unfallible, unerring and totally accurate?.

do you believe the bible is a "good book" with much good about it but not something that should be totally believed?.

do you not believe in the bible at all as being "god's word"?.

superpunk

They address it without bringing it up. DJSM

*** it-2 p. 425 Molten Sea (Copper Sea) ***
Circumference. The circumference of 30 cubits is evidently a round figure, for more precisely it would be 31.4 cubits. In this regard, Christopher Wordsworth quotes a certain Rennie as making this interesting observation: “Up to the time of Archimedes [third century B.C.E.], the circumference of a circle was always measured in straight lines by the radius; and Hiram would naturally describe the sea as thirty cubits round, measuring it, as was then invariably the practice, by its radius, or semi-diameter, of five cubits, which being applied six times round the perimeter, or ‘brim,’ would give the thirty cubits stated. There was evidently no intention in the passage but to give the dimensions of the Sea, in the usual language that every one would understand, measuring the circumference in the way in which all skilled workers, like Hiram, did measure circles at that time. He, of course, must however have known perfectly well, that as the polygonal hexagon thus inscribed by the radius was thirty cubits, the actual curved circumference would be somewhat more.” (Notes on the King James Version, London, 1887) Thus, it appears that the ratio of three to one (that is, the circumference being three times the diameter) was a customary way of stating matters, intended to be understood as only approximate.