Posts by donuthole

7

1914 A Significant Year - Not Just For the Jehovah's Witness Religion!

by donuthole in

was doing some reading on the teachings of the nation of islam (the religous group that malcolm x originally belonged to).

thought it was interesting that they believed that 1914 marked the end of 6000 years of the white man's dominance in the world.. previous research on the group informally known as the 2x2's or cooneyites revealed that their ousted founder, william irvine, preached that 1914 would be the end of the age of grace and a cut-off point for the saved and the world would enter a time period of judgment.. does anyone else know of any groups where 1914 is held to be a biblically significant date?.

donuthole

Was doing some reading on the teachings of the Nation of Islam (the religous group that Malcolm X originally belonged to). Thought it was interesting that they believed that 1914 marked the end of 6000 years of the white man's dominance in the world.

Previous research on the group informally known as the 2x2's or Cooneyites revealed that their ousted founder, William Irvine, preached that 1914 would be the end of the age of grace and a cut-off point for the saved and the world would enter a time period of judgment.

Does anyone else know of any groups where 1914 is held to be a Biblically significant date?

5

Scriptures and Door to Door Witnessing

by littlebuddy in

what scriptures do the jw's use to justify going door to door?

is it a requirement, or just encouraged?

are the scriptures they use taken out-of-context?

donuthole

Door to door evangelism was a tool pioneered by Evangelist D.L. Moody. It was an effective means of contacting people during a time when other door-to-door forms of solicitation were the norm. (i.e. the Fuller Brush Salesman) Russell used it as a way to sell his books and Rutherford made it a requirement to sell his. (If you read the old literature they do not hide the fact that this is a sales activity.)

Despite what the Witnesses claim there is no scriptural prescedent for this type of evangelism. When Jesus sent out twelve disciples as apostles he specifically instructed them not "to be transferring from house to house", rather they were to find an open home in one area and stay there and use it a base to share the message. Per the scriptures, early Christian preaching was done as guests in private homes, in public places (markets, wells, pools), in religous buildings (the Temple, synogogues), and in rented facilities (the Hall of Tyrannus). You never read of Christians going "door to door" systematically in the manner of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Scriptures that the Witnesses will fall back on is Acts 20:20 where Paul says, "I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house."And Acts 5:42 where we read, " And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus."

The Greek word for "house to house" can also be rendered "in private homes", which is more to the point of what Paul is saying, claiming he openly shared his message of Jesus, both publicly and privately. It also has the same thought at Acts 5:42 where it highlights that the message of Jesus was shared both publically (In the Temple) and privately (in homes).

It is important to note the NWT does not render this consistantly and uses "in private homes" instead of "from house to house" at Acts 2:46

" And day after day they were in constant attendance at the temple with one accord, and they took their meals in private homes and partook of food with great rejoicing and sincerity of heart"

Ray Franz details that there was a time in the 70's where the Governing Body agreed with this and stopped stressing the "house to house" work accordingly before reverting back to their earlier stance.

34

Meet the biggest APOSTATE in history---he started it all: MARCION!!

by Terry in

meet marcion.. quite a guy.. very influential.. in many ways, just like you and me!

you see, he was an apostate!.

just like you and me, he didn't start out that way.

donuthole

Marcion was also an early revisionist that changed the parts of Paul's letters and Luke's gospel that didn't fit his personal theology. Not really a champion of the truth in my opinion.

14

Why do elders offer to "study" with witnesses?

by donuthole in

jw
friends

has anybody else ever experienced this?

when you get into a bit of trouble in the congregation or have certain questions/doubts over teachings and they want to study with you all over again?

you could have been a witness your whole life, know the bible teach/live forever/knowledge book front to back, even have studied with others and brought them into the religion - and the elder sitting across from you wants to know if a bible study would help you.

donuthole

Has anybody else ever experienced this? When you get into a bit of trouble in the congregation or have certain questions/doubts over teachings and they want to study with you all over again? I don't get it. You could have been a Witness your whole life, know the Bible Teach/Live Forever/Knowledge book front to back, even have studied with others and brought them into the religion - and the elder sitting across from you wants to know if a Bible study would help you. Has this happened to you? Have you been an elder and can explain this?

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

donuthole

speaking of faith ...

... it is an act of faith to believe that this absolutely, undisputable, fundamental doctrine of true Christianity took theologians some four centuries to develop in full and the secular power of the Roman empire to affirm.

31

Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

by wobble in

jw
friends

i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

love.

donuthole

@Cameo-D

You said - "They have all taken something that was meant to be metaphorical and turned it into a gross blood drinking cannibalistic victory ritual. This is disgusting and is a gross error."

Not sure who you mean when you say "they". From written accounts, including Paul's letter to the Corinthians, this was a ritual that was literally kept by early Christians.

31

Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

by wobble in

jw
friends

i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

love.

donuthole

@JosephMalik

As I understand it the Passover (sacrificial lamb) was prepared on the 14th and eaten that evening on the 15th, which was also the first day of Festival of the Unleavened Bread. I think we are in agreement on that.

You said - "Of course the name changed from Unfermented bread to Passover later in OT texts and was called both ways in NT texts."

Could you cite specific examples of this?

Reviewing those scriptures in John it seems to be referring to the lamb. When it says the religious leaders wanted to be clean to "eat the Passover', I don't see how it could mean anything other than eating the lamb. Remember the lamb had to be eaten in its entirety that evening. It was only eaten during one evening, probably the 15th, not during the entire seven days of the festival.

31

Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

by wobble in

jw
friends

i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

love.

donuthole

@JosephMalik

Interesting subject to look at for certain. Your thesis rests on the assumption that Scriptural references to "the Passover", during the time between Jesus' arrest and execution, should be understood, not in reference to time when the Passover (sacrificed lamb) was prepared/eaten, but rather the entire "Festival of Unleavened Bread" which was a week long festival. Is there a basis for this?

As I understand "the Passover" refers to the sacrificial lamb that was prepared and eaten during Nisan 14/15. So why, according to your timeline, is Scripture still speaking of the Passover on Nisan 18, 19, etc.?

Added: Specifically look at John 18:28, where is says they wanted to keep clean so that they could "eat the Passover". Since "the Passover" is specifically the sacrificed lamb - what do you propose they were concerned about eating?

One More Addition: Take a look at Exodus 12:21 where the Jews were intructed to "slaughter the Passover". They were not killing a holiday or a festival but a lamb. I know in modern times Passover refers to a Holiday but in the Bible it is in reference to the sacrificial lamb. Compare to how Paul refers to Jesus as "our Passover" at 1 Cor 5:7.

31

Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

by wobble in

jw
friends

i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

love.

donuthole

@Joseph

Please excuse me but I'm still a bit confused on this. Why is the Friday considered a Sabbath? I thought Jews observed Saturday as Sabbath?

Edit: Nevermind, I see that the seventh day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath per Leviticus 23:7,8

31

Have JW's got the Memorial date wrong?

by wobble in

jw
friends

i remember a long and complicated debate between our very own joseph malik and the unbelievably named rud perrson about the sabbaths that seemed to show that the nit-picking witlesses had even got this wrong !.

i would love to see a simple explanation.. the other thing is that i do believe the once a year thing is wrong, jesus didn't say "every passover", they were enjoying a meal together, and he said "as often as you do this......" so whenever they ate together it would be good to have something that celebrated jesus' life and death.. but is nisan14 wrong anyway ?.

love.

donuthole

@Joseph

Your timeline has Jesus dying on a Thursday. How is this reconciled with John 19:31 which states that the death needed to be hastened because the next day was a Sabbath.