Following along the other day, with a conversation taking place on one of the Christian Boards, between two individuals fighting it out over the Trinity Doctrine, and wondering about that teaching myself, I noted that one individual made a few interesting points, I felt well-worth noting, so I followed that conversation to its finish, of which, neither side had convinced the other of anything too much, still, for me it was an interesting conversation none-the-less.
On the one side, the one against that teaching focused on some scriptures in Isaiah, that I felt really supported his view. He directed attention to, statements such as: "There is no other God; I am the only God!" That seemed to weigh heavily on his side. It got even better than that though, because he next, came out with: "No other God besides me." I am the only good God!" Now he really had my attention, and this other party was becoming quite miffed at the whole thing. This other party seemed to have done his home work because he wasn't finished yet. Next, I heard: "There is no one like me." "There is no other rock- not one." Now, he really seemed to be on the winning side, and he really had my attention! He still wasn't finished! He was bound and determined to really clear the matter up; which I was quite pleased with, because I had wanted to understand that teaching if I could. So, I paid even closer attention to this debate, which I'm happy to say, I did, because the other fellow really made a killer point, in his next statement. One that very few would probably ever notice unless someone pointed them to it. That was the following:
5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." {John 17:5 NIV}
He drew this other fellows attention to the fact that Jesus, was with his Father, while King Solomon prayed the following prayer to Jehovah. With him when Jehovah made all of those statements about himself being one God! None like him! No other Rock! Not One! None to compare! No equal!
After he had driven that point home, he directed attention to Solomons Prayer to Jehovah, where Solomon had said the following to Jehovah:
14 "and he said, O Jehovah, the God of Israel, there is no God like thee, in heaven, or on earth; who keepest covenant and lovingkindness with thy servants, that walk before thee with all their heart;" {2 Chronicles 6: 14 ASV} Now, I was really beginning to understand what this fellow was driving at, as you will now. He pointed out to this other fellow, the fact, that if Jesus was with his Father when Isaiah penned all of those words, in Isaiah, and Solomon could say, there is 'no God in heaven... like you,' then end of argument, Jesus could not have been God while on this earth. I must say I was very impressed with the home-work this fellow had obviously done, because he had it all figured out quite nicely, I thought. But he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and I'd thought he was, with his last comment. Which I felt cemented his argument, pretty firmly, and needed no more support. Obviously he didn't think so. He continued on, with this next statement, which I thought really tied the knot:
24 "For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence." {Hebrews 9:24 NIV}
With this he asked the other party: "Does God appear in God's presence for us? No reply! Even a very silly notion, isn't it?
With that, I felt the discussion was all over, but not so; another surprise was in store, as I learned, when he directed attention to the words of Jesus at John 7:16 where Jesus had stated: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." He followed up with John 15:15 where Jesus was found to be saying, in part: ... "all the things I have heard from my Father, I have made known to you." Well! I thought! That really did it! that will slow this other fellow down somewhat! I thought! I was wrong again, he came back with John 1:1 and to him that was the end of the discussion, and to me, it looked like it was, because I saw no way to counter that scripture, that said quite clearly: "In the beginning the word was, and the word was with God, and the word was God."
This other fellow came back at him, and told him he was reading that scripture out of context, where if he had of read it in context, he would see, his reasoning was flawed. He then pointed to verse 18 where it says: "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him." Then he told this other fellow, 'all the first Century Christian's saw the Christ, and said; that being true, Jesus could not have been God, because they had walked and talked with Jesus; so how could he have been God, that being the case? He then directed attention to John 5:37 just to bolster his argument, which I felt did a beautiful job of doing that, for there it read: "Also the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. You have neither heard his voice at anytime, nor seen his figure." Then he added: They all heard the voice of Jesus! They saw his figure; so how could he have been God, whom they had not seen, or heard, he countered.
Before I left off following along with these two, the one on the opposing side, added one last comment, where he had pointed to John 1:14 where these words are read: "So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only begotten Son from a Father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth." He then directed attention, to the fact, that it says the only begotten Son was the Word, whose glory was beheld, and that it was this word, this Only begotten Son, that became flesh, not God!
That reasoning pretty well shook the teacher of the Trinity Doctrine I feel certain. He'd been whipped at every turn of the page, by the one with the opposing view, and I do believe he knew it! Just wouldn't admit to it that's all!
5 "I am the Lord. There is no other God;
I am the only God. I will make you strong,
even though you don't know me," ... {Isaiah 45:5 NCV}
21 "Tell these people to come to me.
Let them talk about these things together.
Who told you long ago that this would happen?
Who told about it long ago?
I, the Lord, said these things.
There is no other God besides me.
I am the only good God. I am the Savior.
Thereis no other God.22 "All people everywhere,
follow me and be saved. I am God. There is no other God." {Isaiah 45:21,22 NCV }
9" Remember what happened long ago.
Remember that I am God, and there is no other God.
I am God, and there is no one like me." {Isaiah 46:9 NCV}
18 "The Lord created the heavens.
He is the God who formed the earth and made it.
He did not want it to be empty,
but he wanted life on the earth.
This is what the Lord says:
"I am the Lord. There is no other God." {Isaiah 45:18 NCV}
6 "This is what the Lord says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies: "I am the First and the Last;
there is no other God.7 Who is like me?
Let him step forward and prove to you his power.
Let him do as I have done since ancient times
when I established a people and explained its future.
8 Do not tremble; do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim my purposes for you long ago?
You are my witnesses—is there any other God?
No! There is no other Rock—not one!"{Isaiah 44:6-8 NLT}
25 "To whom will you compare me?
Who is my equal?" asks the Holy One." {Isaiah 40:25 NLT}
8"Do not be startled or afraid.
Have I not told you and declared it long ago?
You are my witnesses!
Is there any God but Me?
There is no [other] Rock; I do not know any." {Isaiah 44:8 HCSB}
I'm thinking these Trinitarions had best have a sit down and explain to Jehovah what he is not aware of about himself, because he's of the mistaken view, that he's only one single God, with no equal, and he says. he knows of no other. While these Trinitarians teach he is three God's in One God. I do believe he would deeply appreciate knowing something about himself that he's not even aware of himself. Wouldn't it be a kindness to inform him of that? Brother! I wouldn't wish to be standing beside you while your doing that, I'm here to tell you! Wannabe