i just realized that all these dates that the borg have said the end would come on or by and then it didn't happen, have stumbled me.
why such a fascination and trying to divine the answer from scripture when scripture plainly says only the father knows the day and the hour?
by their predictions, they actually sent many christians on the path of date-based worship insted of faith-based worship.. if they have stumbled me, then who is reponsible for that?.
I just realized that all these dates that the bOrg have said the end would come on or by and then it didn't happen, have stumbled me. Why such a fascination and trying to divine the answer from scripture when scripture plainly says only the Father knows the day and the hour? By their predictions, they actually sent many Christians on the path of date-based worship insted of faith-based worship.
If they have stumbled me, then who is reponsible for that?
it was my experience during my 13 yrs as a jw that congregations usually had a social clique.
in other words, there would be a group of people in a congregation that would only associate (and sometimes only go out on field service too) with people within that social clique.
if you were in the clique, fine.
This is so true. I grew up in the bOrg and was always a black sheep or what I call white-trash witness. My wife grew up in another congregation over 8,000 miles away and she had the exact same thing happen to her. She pushed herself relentlessly between work and service so hard that one day she fainted on the sidewalk. Her blood count had dropped to half of what the medical establishment transfuses at. At that point she had had enough because she literally almost died from shear exhaustion. No matter what you do in the bOrg it's never good enough and having Witness friends is a death sentence. All they do is sit around, judge you, and nobody can be themselves. All it taught me is that people=problems and so except for one older long-time bachelor workmate of mine, I really have no other friends and I'm okay with that. I am my own clique. LOL!
in genesis 9:22, it says, "ham saw his fathers (noah) nakedness.
" over the years i have heard many theories of waht that meant.
leviticus 18:8...20:11...and 20:20-21 says.
I wonder if Ham was disfellowshipped for this? It seems the child was the one who was blamed.
in genesis 9:22, it says, "ham saw his fathers (noah) nakedness.
" over the years i have heard many theories of waht that meant.
leviticus 18:8...20:11...and 20:20-21 says.
Very clever to discover this! This would make perfect sense as to why Noah cursed Ham's son. Let us know what you come up with Chris Tann.
seriously, endured a torturous conversation with an active jdub yesterday.
and he was frothing at the mouth about how "muslims are doing the right thing with .
executing the....." he then went on to list everyone from drugdealers to thieves to fornicators.. he said "countries where this sort of thing is happening have got it right!
What were the 2 greatest commandments Jesus said? Love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, soul, strength, and mind. 2nd was to love your neighbor as yourself. How does killing in the name of religion play into those commandments and fulfill those requirements? The Judge and Executioner is Jesus Christ and when he returns, he will take care of things. He doesn't need any human, right or wrong, to do his dirty work for him.
Stupid humans.
visiting her "lost son" and this morning she says there was demonic "knocking" on the windows and ceiling and she did not sleep.
my wife has her own buisness and works late so her holiness asked me to drive down to see if she was fornicating with anyone....she thinks two worldly people taking an elevator to the 10 floor would have had sex by the 5th floor....thats the quality of anionted alive today...she is not nuts a well respected pioneer nazi..... .
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The fact of the matter is that most of the time, you have to manifest an interest in the occult above and beyond what you might consider normal. The more ignorant you are, the greater the chance you will be harassed too - not that ignorance alone is a factor - but ignorance and keen interest is a catalyst.
I know a local fellow who made a card board ouija board when he was a teen and that's all it took. He has told me all the stories and even someone who moved into his old place has now been having problems with spirits. The common denominator isn't him nor the house - it's the willful ignorance of the people who think there are good spirits and bad spirits and all that soft namby-pamby approach that demons like to feed on.
Demons are not dumb - they know exactly what they are, where they are, where they are at in the stream of time, and have a much greater knowledge of the physical universe than any human alive today. Once you are educated on what they are and what they are trying to do, they generally leave or don't even bother coming around. There are plenty more places for them that are more condusive to the ignorance they feed on - like Africa, South America, Mexico, and 3rd world countries and many catholic dominated cultures.
i think i'm going to get flamed for this, but it needs to be said.. this kid is full of bravado, and if his head is as stuffed full of muslim ideology, as my head was once stuffed full of christian ideology, he probably believes that allah (the other face of yahweh) wants him to do it, and that if he dies in the effort, he will be rewarded in paradise.. before i post his story, please consider that the ideology of martyrdom, has both a christian face and a muslim face.
ignatius, the second bishop of antioch, wanted to die for jesus, just as the young man in the following story, likely imagines that he is willing to die for allah.. ok, that's out of the way, so here's the story:.
bankstown boy threatens prime minister tony abbott in islamic state recruitment videodate: october 21, 2014 david wroe and natalie o'brien.
Keep in mind that it is Muslim teaching that it is okay to lie to unbelievers and to deceive them to accomplish the goals of Islam, therefore you cannot trust anything a Muslim says...period.
that is the conclusion you must accept if you are a jehovah's witness as my wife tries to explain to me that even if what they are teaching today contradicts what they were previously teaching, they had the truth then and they have the truth now.
the difference is, they (the witnesses and the governing body) simply believed that what they were teaching at the time was the truth but when they discovered new information they adjusted their thinking.
so since they formerly believed it to be the truth, they were in the truth.. an example she gave involved people who once believed the earth was flat.
garyneal: I think you've summed it up Gary. At one point in my life when I was quite young, I figured I would try and for starters I would listen hard and try to apply what all was taught. Nothing could have prepared me for the misery I was about to experience through my life. There is a British show called, "Keeping Up Appearances" which is funny as all get-out, but the great lengths Hyacinth goes to in order to put on a facade of being wealthy and well-to-do is hilarious. In the end, she is completely frazzled and it's how you end up if you try too hard both in works and in faith.
Personally, I have a real struggle with the vague thoughts and unsurety of *IF* I will survive Armageddon. I prefer absolutes as in if I do nothing, I will die. I don't want to die, but it's a sure bet according to WBTS teachings that if I don't do more, I'll die. What's the point of beating my brains out and putting in tons of hours while digesting meeting after meeting after meeting only for the slim chance that "perhaps" I might make it?
I have major cognative dissonance going on and it was a relief to read what it was I had. It would have saved me a lot of money in doctor visits and pills.
Anyway, back to your topic on truth - if I'm going to surrender myself to an organization and a thought process, it had better be 100% right - especially if they are inspired of God. The errors they've allowed to slip over the years like organ transplants being akin to cannibalism and the January 1989 WT about how the preaching work would be concluded in the 20th century has shown me that they are nothing more than men just like you and me - rank and file types - who have no authority beyond what is common to anyone else. I could write the same stuff they do and publish it and it would hold the same weight as their articles as long as it was based on the bible.
I would have a *LOT* more respect for their truth if whenever they changed what they've printed or what they believe in, they'd just print it or say it instead of some subtle nu-light that causes you to scratch your head and wonder what in the heck are they trying to say or correct? For instance, when they subtly corrected themselves in October of 1989 WT for the January 1989 WT about the preaching work ending in the 20th century, what would it have hurt to publish a, "CORRECTIONS" page either in the December issue or in the Kingdom Ministry that said, "We published an error in the January 1989 WT where we said the preaching work would be concluded in the 20th century. According to Matthew 24:36, nobody knows the day nor the hour and neither do we. We anticipate the end is close, but no one can say with certainty, even the WTBTS nor our writers here at Bethel, when that time will come. Until then, we need to keep being faithful by engaging regularly in the preaching work and being regular with our meeting attendance. We humbly ask for your forgiveness for the misinformation and Jehovah willing, we will work hard to prevent misinformation in the future." The simple act of humbling themselves before Jehovah and before the rank and file, admitting they make mistakes, or dare I say it - repenting to the flock - would have done wonders for their reputation and in a positive way. But they dare not because it would not only undermine their authority, but can you imagine the backlash if they made a blatant correction about blood transfusions? Holy smokes...their lawyers would be working overtime then!
that is the conclusion you must accept if you are a jehovah's witness as my wife tries to explain to me that even if what they are teaching today contradicts what they were previously teaching, they had the truth then and they have the truth now.
the difference is, they (the witnesses and the governing body) simply believed that what they were teaching at the time was the truth but when they discovered new information they adjusted their thinking.
so since they formerly believed it to be the truth, they were in the truth.. an example she gave involved people who once believed the earth was flat.
What is truth is truth. What you perceive as true or what you believe is true does NOT change what is factual or truth. What you believe can be found to be in error, but just because you believe it to be true, does not make it so.
What burns my hyde, is that you personally can believe something to be true and if it's different from what the WBTS teaches, you can be disfellowshipped for it. If THEY decide to change the belief or what THEY perceive to be the new truth/new light, they can spout it out, print millions of copies of it, change the belief, no apologies given for previous WRONG understandings, and walk away scott-free for the very things the rank and file can be DF'd for. If all that's required is your sincerety, then it's no different from Christendom because they are just as sincere about their beliefs.
It's not the change in beliefs that upsets me per se, but when people put their entire faith in this organization and hang on every single word from the WBTS because that's what good little JWs do, there are a lot of lives being seriously affected and negatively. People have given up everything to go to Bethel only to be sent packing with nothing and starting over. People doing menial cleaning jobs in their 50s and 60s and struggling to get by when all they would have had to have done is do a 2 or 3 year trade school to get a better paying job. I grew up scared to death Armageddon was going to occur by the year 2000 due to the January 1989 WT Study article. I still have flashbacks and anxiety attacks from this Armageddon-obsessed religion to this day and have had to see therpists and been on numerous anti-depressants.
As I get older, I've observed that the JWs who are the most successful at what they do have all of these things in common:
1) They attend almost all the meetings
2) They go out in field service regularly
3) They don't pay close attention to what's being said nor do they bother to apply any of it.
4) Mind their own business and are savvy enough to not to tell other people, especially JWs, what they do in their personal lives - especially things involving business practices and medical procedures.
5) Anything in this system is okay as long as you put a biblical spin on it. (For example, it's okay to go to college *IF* you are wanting a family and wanting to follow the Bible's admonition to be able to provide for yourself. If you go to school to get rich and have lots of money, then it's wrong. It's okay to spend time with worldly people if you are having a Bible study with them or witnessing to them whether you really are or not, etc.)
Pretty much anything with business and fiances is okay as long as you frame it around "providing for oneself or for the family."
Those JWs who really struggle with this religion are those who really try, really pay attention, and hang on every word - trying so hard to make sure to do what's right, trying to manifest a humble attitude and then paying the price for it. I think the trick is not to try so hard and in the end, realizing lowered expectations breeds happiness. You almost just have to have the mind of "pretending" to go along with it because you are doomed if you take it too seriously. You'll never do enough or never be good enough, because no matter how hard you try, what more can you do? Heck, if all you do is 1 hour of door to door a month, any month where you spend 2 hours in door to door - you've doubled your time and obviously your efforts! Let's see a 60-hour pioneer double their time one month!
my mom seems to railroad me into a debate at least once a week.. anyway long story short,.
she says 'there is no where in the literture that the wt writers claimed that a specfic year it was going to be armageddon.. well i thought there was, and id like to print it or show it to her, i have some older books but not many.. so, is there?
i told her that the wt claimed that 1975 was going to be the end, she said no, they said that was the beginning of the tribulation.. wow, she forgot about the most recent article ablout that already!.
May of 1974 Kingdom Service and January 1989 WT Study article (the actual printed magazine and NOT the bound volume) are good places to start.
