Posts by mindmelda

40

I Just Talked To An Old JW Friend About The Dumbness of The Organization

by minimus in

jw
friends

he came by my work and we talked.

he pretty much became irregular (as a publisher), moved away and recently moved back into the area.

he's now a ms again and he's bemoaning his lot in life and sees a lot of stupidity within the "truth".

mindmelda

I know a lot of "fringe" Witnesses, or used to. They just sort of hang around, never really getting totally into it, always feeling guilty because they're not "good" Witnesses. I was that way myself for many years (my husband too), irregular with publishing, spotty on meeting attendance, never really believing half of it, but knowing nothing else and afraid to death of making a break with it, because OMG what if it's really the TRWOOF?

Then I started asking myself what if it's not, and things got scarier for a while, but are gradually getting better.

My husband is still in the "apathetic but still a little afraid to admit it's not the truth" phase. I'm trying hard not to push him, when I bring up things I have found out about the WTS too much, the defenses come up a little.

He's not been to a meeting longer than even I have, but the indoctrination and fear still are working at some level. I understand. It's a process. He's mainly afraid I'll get DF'd for apostasy, he mentioned that the other night.

I told him, "Honey, we're both doing things we could be DF'd for, whether you know it or not. We both swear, we both like oral sex and we hang out constantly with worldly people, and we don't believe some of the key doctrines of the WTS. You can be DF'd for all that! Quit worrying, I just want to fade away and be totally ignored by the JWs as long as I live, and I know you do too."

I reasurred him that I do not hate the Bible (as I now understand it, sans WTS doctrine) or God and that seemed to reassure him in some way although he's not keen on religion of any kind now.

But, he can't stand the behavioral micromanaging or the restrictions on DFing and has ignored them for years. He hasn't been to a meeting in years, nor read a magazine, none of that. I believe that's what it takes...just not filling your head with the nonsense and it gradually fades. You have to keep feeding your brain this idiocy for it to keep working. I know that's why they constantly indoctrinate you and train you to keep indoctrinating yourself. The last time I heard a Watchtower article read, it was so easily deconstructible it wasn't even funny. The circular logic, the leaps of logic, the erroneous conclusions. all very obvious.

My husband told me this morning he's starting to think all religion is a crock...that's a step in the right direction, I'm sure. I went through that too. I may never go to any sort of church, but I believe in God in a personal way now. For now, that's fine.

And definitely not the JW version of God. Ew.

14

JW illness

by Rosey in

jw
friends

i don't mean an illness that makes you a jw ;) that would be scary.. i was wondering if everyone else felt that there was a huge amount of illness within the borg.......if there still is?.

when i was a jw i remember there being a magazine about cfs (chronic fatigue syndrome) and me ( mylo encephalitis?

something like that) and at the time hearing a report on the radio that said it was on the increase and particularly among people in caring professions such as nurses, home workers, and jw's.

mindmelda

That's a great question, actually. I have fibromyalgia, (a mild case, it used to be worse) and know of quite a few JWs who have it and/or Chronic Fatigue.

It's well documented that all of these immune related disorders are aggravated or perhaps even caused by stress and emotional trauma. Other groups prone to these immune system irregularities are victims of domestic abuse, rape or child abuse/incest. Unfortunately, it's led some doctors to believe they're psychosomatic, but they do have actual physical symptoms. The immune system is affected adversely by prolonged emotional stress and trauma.

There are also genetic factors. My two daughters suffer from fibromyalgia too, but I didn't raise them as Witnesses, and plenty of non-Witnesses suffer from these illnesses. Accidents and illnesses are also triggering events that tax the immune system for prolonged periods. But, yes, if you have the genetic factors and then are subjected to a lot of emotional trauma or abuse, that can be the triggering event, according to what I've read.

It's interesting that Mormon women also have a high rate of these sorts of illnesses.

48

Forget all of the stages: Denial, Anger, Sadness - Don't you sometimes just feel STUPID for having believed in the Organization?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i know i have been through all those stages, i denied it, then i got angry, definitely sad.

months and months of this, and i still am in for my family and friends.. but sometimes i just feel stupid.

why did i ignore basic common sense for so long?

mindmelda

I was a child when this was done to me, a child who was offered no other choices in life, and believed my parents loved me and were telling me the truth and wanted what was best for me. All children want to believe that of their parents. And, I'm sure my parents believed that withholding higher education, raising me like the Amish (except without the farm fresh air!) and a mind controlled WTS slave was best for me too.

It doesn't make it any less stupid or harmful, though. Feeling stupid is a good beginning I think. It's probably normal to feel stupid when you've been conned by experts. But, they deceived an awful lot of smart people, don't forget you're not alone.

And, you were smart and sane enough to see through it, eventually. Think of all the others who are still buying the Brooklyn Bridge every day, and then think, "Who are really the stupid ones now?"

The people selling it aren't really too smart, either. All good cons must come to an end eventually. This one will run it's sad course too.

Christ nor the freedom that Christ offered is not in this religion. That to me is the biggest and saddest lie of all.

19

Stop looking for the answer,

by John Doe in

jw
friends

and you will discover the truth.

.

mindmelda

It's a good idea to get rid of the torturous and rather OCD thought processes about all sorts of things that the WTS promotes. They're part of the overly scrupulous self-monitoring that goes on.

The reason you get paranoid and always feel like someone is watching you is because they've trained you to do it to yourself.

6

why quote the Bible all the time??

by hamsterbait in

jw
friends

after the thread on the gay prom queen.... so many things in the modern world are issues because they are in the holy books of a certain stone age nomadic tribe, who like most desert wanderers cut off the skin of the penis.. why can nobody ever quote something from the sanscrit books or any of the other holy writings when they want to justify hating and or killing somebody whose life is different.. think of all the trees wasted printing "proofs" of noahs global flood - we all know that if it were in any other holy book it would have been dismissed as trash without a second thought.. hb.

mindmelda

I don't believe that homophobic nonsense is in the Bible. It's sad that the six scriptures that are used by some to condemn homosexuality are mistranslated and misapplied and some have gone from one radically homophobic set of religious beliefs to another.

It's my feeling that until you deconstruct ALL the JW lies, and some of them are unfortunately shared by literalistic and fundamentalist Christian faiths, that you're not truly free.

32

Is anyone suffering from post-traumatic bitterness disorder?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,4544029.story.

bitterness as mental illness?bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.by shari roan.

and, increasingly, psychiatrists know them.

mindmelda

I don' t think it's strange to feel that you've been treated unjustly when you have been.

But, I think that different personality types handle injustice differently. Sitting around the rest of your life fantasizing about getting revenge on the WTS in different ways seems a waste of time, and just stoking the fire.

Living your life successfully may well be the best revenge because the JW prediction is that you cannot have a happy, good or successful life without their dogma and presence ruling your life.

Then you have to decide what a successful life entails. For some, it's replacing their old unsupportable beliefs with something more rational and liveable. I know that's true of me. I tried agnosticism and it was definitely better than JW hocus pocus, but I also started to feel spiritually empty.

I'm one of those crazy people who needs to believe in God, but not the JW God. Too scary, too mean, too unforgiving, too dictatorial.

God just seems to be a reasonable explanation for all the inexplicable bits of life and for human nature itself, and after examining all sorts of other philosophies and ideas, that's where I am.

But, I now call the JW God "Godzilla" because that's all he seems to do...stomp a bunch of people for being human every so often. They can have the God of Angry Tantrums, feh.

8

My own little GB memory

by mindmelda in

i just remembered this, as it happened back in the mid 70s.

my parents had taken my younger brother and i to hear two "special" talks in salt lake city.. the featured speakers were knorr and raymond franz.. i remember being entranced by franz, who was one of the more concise speakers i'd ever heard, very sharp, and rather bored by knorr, who seemed elderly and vague.

i was about 13/14 at the time but had these very distinct impressions.. anyway, after the talks, the crowds were pressing in to get a chance to shake the speakers hands, and my 12 year old brother (who had adhd and still does) pushed impulsively through the crowd and ran smack into knorr.

mindmelda

Mouthy, it's so hard to envision you swearing and smoking! You sound such a lady on the phone. LOL

You're still pretty fiesty, though.

32

Is anyone suffering from post-traumatic bitterness disorder?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-bitterness25-2009may25,0,4544029.story.

bitterness as mental illness?bitter behavior is so common and deeply destructive that some psychiatrists are urging it be identified as a mental illness under the name post-traumatic embitterment disorder.by shari roan.

and, increasingly, psychiatrists know them.

mindmelda

I'm trying very hard not to be bitter. I've got a few years ahead of me, a decent brain, some hope that isn't steaming piles of bat guano, have reconnected to my non JW family who was alienated from me for years and hey...life is pretty damn good, especially compared to being a Witness.

I'm FREEEEEEE! and I think I'm starting to enjoy it. I called my uncle and his wife today who I haven't talked to in 20 years because they're "Christians" and oooh, EVIL, because of that. They'd destroy my precious inpenetrable JW faith, you know!

Turns out they're nice normal people who talk about how they love God once in a while but wow, normal. No horns or pitchforks or pea soup vomiting.
I had a ball talking to them, and they're moving here!

I swear, it's divine providence or something. Or just a really wonderful coincidence. I'm getting a FAMILY again. I think I'm gonna cry.

15

Help me with the logic of this

by Magwitch in

jw
friends

i was married for 20 years to a brown nosing, power hungry elder.

his headship was so overbearing i was basically a prisoner.

he would not let me associate with my dear parents (father an elder, mother a pioneer) because they were too liberal as witnesses (they did things like save seats at the assemblies when we were told not to).

mindmelda

It amazes me you can get DF'd for divorcing an abusive person, but not for being an abusive person if you're a JW.

I think this is hurting my brain too.

You did the right thing. No one deserves to be abused. Not by an person, not by an organization.

8

My own little GB memory

by mindmelda in

i just remembered this, as it happened back in the mid 70s.

my parents had taken my younger brother and i to hear two "special" talks in salt lake city.. the featured speakers were knorr and raymond franz.. i remember being entranced by franz, who was one of the more concise speakers i'd ever heard, very sharp, and rather bored by knorr, who seemed elderly and vague.

i was about 13/14 at the time but had these very distinct impressions.. anyway, after the talks, the crowds were pressing in to get a chance to shake the speakers hands, and my 12 year old brother (who had adhd and still does) pushed impulsively through the crowd and ran smack into knorr.

mindmelda

My brother was DF'd for a long time, but now reinstated, but pretty much inactive. He has a certain sentimental attachment to family and friends who are JWs and hangs around for that reason. He's not huge on Bible study, could care less. Just does enough to pass. Also, he's never been exposed to other religions. I really think if he weren't a Witness, he'd just be an agnostic.

Except he was never really DF'd, it was a huge fumble by whoever keeps track of records in the congregation he was in. He supposedly wrote a "disassociation letter" and it was announced at his congregation that he was no longer associated. But, he'd left the state when that was done. And it wasn't him who wrote the letter, it was his ex wife. She signed his name, forged it, without his knowledge to HER letter. No one bothered to check and he was gone anyway, so they announced it.

My brother had no idea. He'd left the state to find employment elsewhere after his wife left him for another guy. She was also an inactive Witness who finally decided to disassociate herself. She went to work as an exotic dancer in Las Vegas after that, she was a good looking thing, made a mint doing it. She's dead now, accidental insulin overdose. My brother has a son who he disowned because he's openly, flamboyantly gay, wears makeup, Adam Lambert gay, you know. He hasn't seen him in 8 years.

Anyway, my brother wandered around for a while and he was drinking heavily. He finally came back to see my parents, hitchhiking part of the way as he'd run out of money. He called my parents who informed him he was DFd, that he'd supposedly written this letter. He was amazed, he hadn't.

He came back protested it, asked for the letter, and no letter was produced, but the one elder left in the congregation he was in that was involved (the three others were gone, all DF'd themselves for running a business scam together, ahem) swore up and down there was a letter.

So, my brother was told he had to go through reinstatement. He did, 2 years of meeting attendance, being studied with by an elder. He was told if he missed even one meeting it would prolong the process, and with the work he does, it's impossible for him to attend all meetings. So, it took 2 years of jumping through hoops. My dad was so disgusted he stepped down, became inactive himself.

I was mad too, it was just total crap. I quit attending meetings, going out in service...this was about 15 years ago, my first inactive period, then the lured me back with the love bombs later.

But, finally, the elders called my brother in to reinstate him and the PO casually says, "We finally found your old publisher file about 6 months ago...it had you mistakenly listed as 'deceased' and there was no letter in your file. It was in your ex wife's file, though. Is this your signature?"

My brother looks at it an laughs. He's dyslexic and has dysgraphia, so he can't write well at all in cursive, has a very distinctive scribble that you can't reproduce for his sig. He writes it for them and they compare. It's not his sig on the letter. He'd written no letter, just as he always claimed.

"Oh, well, I guess we should have looked into this sooner." the PO says, and oh by the way, you're reinstated, yay, love bombs all around.

He went through two years of shunning for NOTHING. They simply didn't want to believe him because you don't ever believe a DF'd person, you see...they're evil.

I personally can't believe he put up with it, but he felt he deserved it, because he was an alcoholic and was thrown in jail for a DUI twice.

But, the fact remains...he never wrote that letter.

My brother remembers the Brother Knorr story. He's quite funny, tells it once in a while.