an appendix in the book contains some 120 questions along with hundreds of scriptural "proof texts" that the proselyte is then expected to study.
12 jesus commanded his followers to baptize new disciples in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit.
the following quotation shows what the proselyte is expected to study just prior to baptism:.
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Compare the newest baptismal vows to what they said in this 1955 Watchtower Magazine:
w55 7/1 p. 411 Christian Baptism for the New World Society
15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.
when you look back over the 130 year history of wt, what is the most bizzare/ridiculous/hilarious/absurd teaching or quotes that you have found?.
one of the ones i find hilarious is during the beth-sarim affair, rutherford announced that the world was laughing and mocking them because they don't believe the resurrection is going to come to pass when they said it was.
rutherford went on to say in effect "we will show them when people start coming back from the graves"... lol.
This is the most ridiculous and hypocritical:
w55 7/1 p. 411 Christian Baptism for the New World Society
15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.
It was through researching this wt magazine paragraph which led to my eventual disfellowshipping.
Why was I disfellowshipped?
I completely agreed with the paragraph in the 1955 Watchtower Magazine above!
In Christ
abe
hi, i had a great conversation with an elder and his wife.
i am born again and the question i asked them was what scripture they hold on to on the day of armageddon when god looks at them and tries to determine whether or not he will let them into the paradise earth or not.
he never heard that question and had no reply... he was going to do some research on it for me... .
Ethan,
I think you should feel comfortable with Hebrew Chapter 10 where it discusses the Holy Covenant.
This is the thing that Jesus Christ shed his blood for.
The reason he came to the earth to die.
It is through this means that anyone and everyone might benefit through his shed blood.
Then I would work in the scripture in Daniel Ch 11 about how this same Holy Covenant would be undermined.
The Christian temple would be profaned by a disgusting thing.
You should then work towards discussing the JW baptismal vows and compare them to Jesus Christ's commandment.
Make absolutely certain their are no other names in the vows.
When you see that "God's Spirit Directed Organization" is in the vows ask them what that is and if it means you are now making a vow to men.
If they deny that you are making vows to men show them this quote from page 109 of the Jehovah's Witness Proclaimers of God's Kingdom Book about how God's Spirit directed organization is organized.
jvchap.9p.109Jehovah’sWordKeepsMovingSpeedily(1976-1992)
the Governing Body observed: "It has proved beneficial to have a number of brothers taking counsel together to consider the interests of the Kingdom work
Now explain to them how you feel uncomfortable about the Holy Covenant being undermined.
As a clincher you could show them this quote from a 1955 Watchtower Magazine:
w557/1p.411ChristianBaptismfortheNewWorldSociety
A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.
Ask them why they get baptized in the name of an organization when they at one time thought this was a reprehensible thing to do.
Help them understand that the holy covenant has been undermined.
In Christ
abe
the trangression (sin) causing desolation has a lot to do with the new covenant and .......... holy spirit.. .
after all jesus christ said he would forgive our sins and so what is the transgression guaranteed to cause desolation.. .
made a video series regarding this topic.. .
The trangression (sin) causing desolation has a lot to do with the New Covenant and .......... Holy Spirit.
After all Jesus Christ said he would forgive our sins and so what is the transgression guaranteed to cause desolation.
Will it not be forgiven.
Made a video series regarding this topic.
Here is part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgE-cy_A5wM
In Christ
abe
i am meeting a coworker tonight at a coffee shop for a "bible study".
it started out that she was interested in my past and my current questions / viewpoints and we were just going to visit.
now she is referring to it as a "bible study" which implies that she thinks i need to be taught.
Frankie,
If you are able to google some information which identifies politicians who have already made this admission please share the link.
It would give me great comfort.
abe
i am meeting a coworker tonight at a coffee shop for a "bible study".
it started out that she was interested in my past and my current questions / viewpoints and we were just going to visit.
now she is referring to it as a "bible study" which implies that she thinks i need to be taught.
Frankie,
But it all seems so childish that "Enlightened Nations" will give up and give over their control of government to the imaginary unseen Deity of the bible(after all they are enlightened),, especially since has never made a showing or anything,, for them to turn over their power over to him,, not to mention,, since they would be proclaiming according to you,, they "don't know which way to turn". The puzzle pieces you are offering me don't seem to fit together very logically.
"Enlightened Nations" is a term that AllTimeJeff used.
I don't believe that he was referring to nations that had been enlightened by God.
I think he was referring to "Enlighted Nations" who over time would be able to end suffering in the world without the aid of God.
They are "enlightened" with man made knowledge and intelligence.
Hope that helps the puzzle fall into place.
When nations start to admit that they; "do not know which way to turn", then expect that many peoples convictions will begin to change.
Please imagine the amount of suffering they will have caused before this point is actually reached.
I will confess that I am already afraid about the future of mankind due to their continuing efforts.
It is only the promises in the bible which continue to give me hope.
abe
i am meeting a coworker tonight at a coffee shop for a "bible study".
it started out that she was interested in my past and my current questions / viewpoints and we were just going to visit.
now she is referring to it as a "bible study" which implies that she thinks i need to be taught.
Frankie,
Does that mean every intelligent ruler has to throw his hands up in the air and give up before God brings the end? What's the critical mass breaking point for this to happen 50%,80%, 90% or 100% of the "enlightened nations" ?
And your use of the term "enlightened nations" does this just refer to who's ruling at the time or are we to expect a certain percentage of the nations acting as a whole and issuing out statements to the general public that they no longer no which way to turn? What are the details of this sign for the end come? Will we be reading it on the Internet ?Will we be able to google search these statements at government run web sites or find them on the UN web pages?Telling us they no longer know what to do.
I believe it will be 100%.
The bible does indicate however, that it will reach the point where some nations will actually obey God.
and eventually all of them will have to obey God.
When Nations start to admit that they do not know which way to turn I expect you will find the admission in all kinds of media.
Try and imagine what it would take for AllTimeJeff and similar people to change their convictions.
When the world reaches that point then I expect that Jesus Christ would soon return.
Luke 21
29 With that he spoke an illustration to them: “Note the fig tree and all the other trees: 30 When they are already in the bud, by observing it YOU know for yourselves that now the summer is near. 31 In this way YOU also, when YOU see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near.
abe
i am meeting a coworker tonight at a coffee shop for a "bible study".
it started out that she was interested in my past and my current questions / viewpoints and we were just going to visit.
now she is referring to it as a "bible study" which implies that she thinks i need to be taught.
AlltimeJeff
I think it is the goal of enlightened nations to work to accomplish this over time.
And so God is allowing them the opportunity.
Please don't blame God for being a no show when you or anyone else think enlightened nations are GOING to solve the problems of suffering over time.
When I look around at what is really happening in the world it is the "enlightened nations" that have been a no show.
Jesus Christ said that Christians will have to endure to the end.
The end will come when the "enlightened nations" admit that they; "don't know which way to turn".
Your convictions posted above assure me that I will have to wait and endure for some more time.
While your convictions persist I am confident that God will continue to be a no show.
abe
i am meeting a coworker tonight at a coffee shop for a "bible study".
it started out that she was interested in my past and my current questions / viewpoints and we were just going to visit.
now she is referring to it as a "bible study" which implies that she thinks i need to be taught.
AllTimeJeff,
while you silently sit back and watch it all, and then possibly hope that I think you are the best option for mankind???!!! Yeah. Right.
Then continue to vote for the alternative options.
You will always be allowed to measure the value of your alternative options by looking around at what is happening in the world.
It measures the value of all the alternatives.
God will continue to allow you to reap the benefit of your decisions.
How are you liking it so far?
abe
i am meeting a coworker tonight at a coffee shop for a "bible study".
it started out that she was interested in my past and my current questions / viewpoints and we were just going to visit.
now she is referring to it as a "bible study" which implies that she thinks i need to be taught.
At the present time there are many organizations and individuals both political and secular who think they know what to do in order to make the world a better place.
Isn't that why political candidates get a vote?
Because individuals think their plan will actually work!
Is that not why the USA and many other countries have gone to war?
They all think they will make the world a better place and end suffering.
As long as even one man or woman exists on the planet who imagines that they can actually do this without God's help then they should be allowed.
It is only when not even one individual comes forward to suggest this that I expect God to return.
When not even one individual steps forward to suggest this ................. that is when Jesus Christ will return!
The world will continue to suffer the result of their decisions (and votes) until the suffering reaches the point where no one is willing to step forward.
Please try and imagine a sutuation where all the political candidates, university professors, scientists and self important people actually make this admission and confess that they don't know what to do.
THAT .............. is when Jesus Christ will return.
abe
