Reniaa - I have posted on every Trintarian thread. I don't believe in the Trinity. I believe that Father gave life to Son otherwise it is a meaningless description of their relationship. However Jesus is definitly to be worshipped, obeyed, prayed to and is of the "same nature as God" He is God's only begotten Son He is not God, but he is able to funtion on his own abilities, merit, and intelligence. He is your ruler he is the one you are to be a witness of not YHWH. That is why YHWH is not found anywhere in the Greek Scriptures. It is not necessary. JWs accept that the Bible has been alterd many times, but insist that God has kept everything you need in the scriptures - that is why God did not see fit to keep his peraonal name in the Greek Scriptures. I believe the Truth is somewhere in the middle. Jesus is God to mankind because he created us and is our Eternal Father and Saviour. But the Father gave him that position as every scripture that describes their relationship confirms - Father gives Son his name, authority, position not that the Son has them from infintite times just that God has given him these things.
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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The movie 'Doubt'
by sass_my_frass inthis has probably come up before but i thought it was worth suggesting: this movie is quite intense but meryl streep and philip hoffman are just magnificent (as always), and it really portrays what members of an organisation do when confronted with abuse.
the leaders of the church handle it internally, but if it's the leaders who are the perpetrators, what can be done?
it doesn't even occur to the members of the organisation to go to the police on their own; they trust the system they know.
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allelsefails
I watched Doubt a few days ago with my (JW) Family. We had an interesting discussion most of them saying they were sure Hoffman's character was guilty - and degrading the Catholic Church at the same time. I told them all - "You realize if this EXACT case, this EXACT evidence was brought up - NOTHING would be done in a JW cong. In fact the only action they would take is against Streep's character for Gossip." That pretty much ended the discussion of negatives toward the Catholics.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
Outlaw - Thanks. thought I was missing something - it happens a lot :-) So if in Hebrew God's name was YHWH - and we have no idea how to "accurately" translate it into English - why not Jehovah or Yaweh? .......... I agree with the info I read that JWs are wrong to suggest use of the name "Jehovah" is vital for salvation. The NT shows over and over again that Christians are to call on the name of Jesus for salvation and forgiveness, and to be witnesses of Jesus to the ends of the Earth. They diminish Jesus by putting Jehovah in these roles.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
Spike - saying Jehovah is the final authority on whether Jehovah is his name or not is silly.......... 1 Samuel 16:7 selcting King David Jehovah sees the heart. Hebrews 4:12-13 all things are open and exposed to God. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture inspired of god ... etc. None have anything to do with our discussion here. ...... PS - When Paul? wrote "all scripture" he meant ONLY the Hebrew scriptures he had available at the time. Most likely he was referrring to the Septuagint which included several books we now consider apocrypha. So do you agree with Paul that those books are inspired? He certainly was not talking about NT books.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
Outlaw - I have found a lot of information saying the translation of YHWH to Jehovah was basically guesswork, but nothing that shows that it is a mistake. It seems there is no evidence to support how it should be translated. How do you think God's name in the OT - YHWH - should be translated into English. Just curious.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
Outlaw - would you mind posting the info on Jehovah being a mistake f translation. I don't diagree but it sounds interesting. (I think the whole English language is a translation mistke - I live in Texas where our English is unrecognizable to the rest of the world :-)
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
Spike - I'm not talking about the English word "worship". I'm talking about apostle John using the same Greek word for "worship" Jesus as he does for "worship" Jehovah. The word didn't chage in meaning or application from one chapter to another! That is why the NWT translated it as worship Jesus in its first edition, but later changed their translation to fit their own beliefs. (If you get new light from Jehovah - why does he give you something that has to be changed over and over again, and then you go back to the original thinking of Russell! ie - Generation, Sodom and Gomorrah )
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Supreme Court Blood Case - WTS LOSES
by skeeter1 inhttp://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2009/2009scc30/2009scc30.html.
supreme court of canada.
wts loses!.
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allelsefails
It is ridiculous to think a child can make an informed decision on a religious or medical matter. The question is where does the Superior Authority have the right to protect a child? If you were being abused by your parent, but they said it was a "religious" obligation for them abuse you - should the Government step in? Absolutely! This is a matter where the life of a child is involved. Even if you're a JW you should not fight the court order for a transfusion. You should recognize that the "Superior Autority" has the right to make decisions you don't agree with. When I was a JW I would not have given permission, but I never would have fought the blood trans either.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
MDB - awesome long post - I couldn't even read it all I was laughing so hard. I am not a trinitarian, but I don't use nonsense info to support me. .............. Spike - The word for "worship" Jehovah and "bow down" to Jesus are the same Greek word (prokenau) in the same context. Your religion worshipped Jesus until 1954! If it is so clear that you shouldn't I would think the FDS would get clued in within 60 years! ...................... Ren - JWs demean Jesus when they say their instructions come from Jehovah. Jesus is the head of the congregation. He has been given the right to rule it as he sees fit. He is the Judge of life and death - not Jehovah. Jesus said we witness about ..... Jesus! He is our Eternal Father our Mighty God. Jesus was the creator in that the physical universe was created thru him and for him. The JWs often use the illustration of an apprentice for Jesus in heaven. If an apprentice makes a sword under the direction of the "Master" the apprentce physically in real way created the sword himself. Jesus is The Only Begotten SON of God - yes he can act as an angel like Moses or any other Bible writer, but he is much more than that. Jesus is the same Nature as the Father. That means he is a God - Omniscient , Omnipotent ... etc.
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What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?
by AK - Jeff ina thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
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allelsefails
Reniaa wrote - You guys may not like the paul letters but I just was checking the revelations as part of the canon and one thing that came up is how early the confirmation on the Paul letters was, they were always completely accepted as canon by literally everyone. They also have very early dates on them. Reniaa ..........................................
You're right the earliest Scripture list by the Heretic Marcion in c.150 C.E. includes all Paul's letters (including the letter to the Laodiceans) and Luke edited by Marcion. (No other books of course) Not one quote by an actual "Christian" shows Paul's works were considered "scripture" until c. 180. Yes Paul was quoted from in the earliest times of the church - that is Clement of Rome. But many books were accepted and quoted from as much as Paul's writings and before James, Jude, Revelation, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John. Take those out and put in Hermas, Barnabas, and 1 Clement and see how different your doctrine is. DOn't use evidence you're not willing to apply to your own beliefs. ..........................
The only defense of the "Bible" is that God must have directed the selection of books NO objective study would allow the 27 books of the Greek/NT scriptures in.