A CO told me about the "586" apostasy. He was a good person, but obviously didn't realize how he got me thinking. Several years later I saw in an encyclopedia (yeah - a book with a cover and pages and stuff) that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 NOT 607. Studied that and the obvious happened - No 607 = no 1914 = no FDS = What the hell are we doing? found this site shortly thereafter and had constant support from everyone here. JW Facts, Leolaia gave me things the way I like - lots of facts,quotes,etc.. but seriously every quote I read here built my strength. Thanks All.
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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Who is your favorite "Apostate"? Who helped you see the truth about "The Truth"?
by minimus ini would have to say that ray franz was the biggest influence for me.. when i first got on this board, a poster by the name of james, a former bethelite and organization heavy, helped me understand a lot of the inner workings in the upper echelons of the society.. .
and of course, farkel's common sense approach was (usually) helpful..
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New Flock Book - Child Abusers NOT excluded from serving again
by allelsefails in"shepherd the flock" book - page 38 - chapter 3 par.20 ........ (talking about disqualifying servants and elders) 20. if the sin occurred before he was appointed as an elder or a ministerial servant, the elders will need to take into consideration the fact that he should have mentioned this possible impediment to his being qualified when elders interviewed him just prior to announcing his appointment.
moreover, the nature of the sin may reflect greatly on his qualifications to serve.
for example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.-w97 1/1 pp.
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allelsefails
Kon - your point is well made in general. A ridiculous ruling on a 14 year old and a 13 year old experimenting should not follow you forever in any respect.
The WT has their own definitions for phrases of course. When they say "child abuse" they do not include any minor on minor offenses. Even if the law recognizes these the WT does not. I remember reading the 97 WT refernced in this paragraph and thinking I was proud we took the stand that someone who had abused children would never serve in a responsible position. Little did I know that a "known" abuser had to be certified by the branch not common sense.
When "allelsefails" - try common sense.
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New Flock Book - Child Abusers NOT excluded from serving again
by allelsefails in"shepherd the flock" book - page 38 - chapter 3 par.20 ........ (talking about disqualifying servants and elders) 20. if the sin occurred before he was appointed as an elder or a ministerial servant, the elders will need to take into consideration the fact that he should have mentioned this possible impediment to his being qualified when elders interviewed him just prior to announcing his appointment.
moreover, the nature of the sin may reflect greatly on his qualifications to serve.
for example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.-w97 1/1 pp.
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allelsefails
"Shepherd the Flock" Book - Page 38 - Chapter 3 par.20 ........ (talking about disqualifying servants and elders)
20. If the sin occurred before he was a ppointed as an elder or a ministerial servant, the elders will need to take into consideration the fact that he should have mentioned this possible impediment to his being qualified when elders interviewed him just prior to announcing his appointment. Moreover, the nature of the sin may reflect greatly on his qualifications to serve . For example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.-w97 1/1 pp. 26-29; w77 pp. 697-698.
How could child abuse in your past "likely" "disqualify him for many years"? That is disgusting. There is no cure for pedophiles. If they are sick mentally they can certainly gain God's forgiveness, but it should PERMANENTLY disqualify them from serving in resposible positions again. This is "protecting" the children?
I know this is not new, but I stumbled across it again and wanted to vent. This sort of "secret information" is horrible -
"True religion in no way practices secretiveness. " - WT 6/1/97 - pg. 6 - Why can't they hear their own words?
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My Judicial committee
by label licker init was six hours long.
at the beginning of the week i had four accusers and by the time i went (half way throught the week) i was up to twelve.
i was charged with apostasy, malicous slander, lying, revileing.
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allelsefails
Vidiot - I know. Everyone I have told thinks it is crazy too.
LL - I've never heard of anyone reprooved for discouraging pioneering either. I'm sure that is not in the "flock" book.
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The Book of Revelation and our Time
by Crazyguy ini know there are not many peterists out there but for the sake of argument all you bible believers, a question for you.
its looking more and more like the book of revelation was written for john's time and not ours.
the number mentioned 666 is more likely 616 for the emperor caligula who put a statue of himself in the temple at jerusalem, and the first verses in the book and the last chapter all say that these thing will happen quickly.
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allelsefails
The book of Revelation was basically the last one to be put in the "accepted writings". Around 198 AD they were still debating between that and the Apocalypse of Peter which is a little darker ( if you can believe it ). They picked "John's" apocalypse because it fit better with the deity of Christ nonsense they were selling in the third century.
Anyone ever look up the mushrooms that grow on Patmos - seems like they were pretty good.
Crazy : Peterist - Did you mean preterist? Need a prophecy before they can be fulfilled. Not a bunch of "Nostadamus" style ramblings. Anybody can interpret them however they want and it is just as dumb.
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My Judicial committee
by label licker init was six hours long.
at the beginning of the week i had four accusers and by the time i went (half way throught the week) i was up to twelve.
i was charged with apostasy, malicous slander, lying, revileing.
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allelsefails
LL - Wow - As an elder for many years I can't imagine treating someone the way you both were treated. Disgusting. I have pretty much put myself in your type of situation so I could stay in contact with my family that is all "in".
For me - I had a jc for apostasy - no witnesses or accusers. Just the questions I had asked of the elders in that room. I told them almost everything I thought, but when they asked "the question" ("do you believe Jesus is using the governing body to direct his organization" I answered with a "sure" and then moved right along making my own very opposite points. Even though everything else I said in the meeting showed I had no respect for the GB and their authority my "sure" was enough for them. No difellowshipping - I was privately reproved.
That's right - I was found Guilty of Apostasy, but I was determined to be repentent (I never said sorry or admitted to being an apostate so that seems impossible.) AND not a danger to the congregation - so my reproof could be private. I tell people this any chance I get and everyone thinks it is the most ass backward thing they've ever heard. I was planning on being DF'd so I could appeal or let off the hook because there were no witnesses or evidence. No I was put in "Limbo". No commenting for me - so no more fun going to meetings, saying questionable things or quoting from WT's 30 years old. Oh well at least my kids still talk to me.
It would be nice to hear your committee, but I understand the ramifications of releasing it. Maybe your DF'd husband could steal it and post it? Then if ever asked about it you could say how sorry you are that it happened and you are not resposible and he can say you had nothing to do with it. Just a selfish thought since I want to hear it.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.
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Apostates At War With Jehovah's Delusional Organization Strategy
by frankiespeakin inas the "truth about the truth' (delusional thinking bible interpetations) becomes more wide spread and the rate of jws leaving the clutches of the wt corporation increases a war/battle results, it is true some are just happy to get out with no need to inflict any retaliatorial injury to the corporation that held them hostage through deciet.
many on the other hand want to get their families out of this cult and a restoration of their good name from the cruel slander of an organization that has made a fortune off of their free labor and now forbids it members to have anything to do with them causing a great loss in former friends and family members.
is retailiation in order for these offenses?
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allelsefails
This is very interesting to me. I still have family "in" and am hoping for their escape. What are the odds of an organized campaign of information - in the pattern of JW's Memorial invitation campaign - where we all contact JW's we know simultaneously with the same info. This would be discussed at some level and could not be ignored.
I'm not in favor of "picketing", but what about a flyer on every car at the kingdom hall? A few basic questions might be enough to turn many away. If we could get the momentum going it could be amazing.
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Hi everyone !!!
by Durden ini am durden.. a teenager that is an unbaptized publisher and is trying to leave this damn cult !!!.
i have been lurking here for some time and i decided to start posting with this intro.. im from europe, both my parents are jw's, my parents are both teachers (math teachers).. my parents are "softcore" jw's, they accept all my questions and try to answer them.. i am trying to "convert" my dad (an elder which might complicate things), me and my dad recently had various discussions about the org ("discussions" on the good sense of the word).. we talked about jehovah in the nt, 1975, 1914, gb in 1st century, the cross, "new lights" ..., you know the usual stuff.. and all is going well i think, i think i can "convert" him until the end of summer.. i mean is a logical man, what can go wrong ?
man, when i found jwfacts it was like my world had collapsed, all thoses lies .... but its good now to have found the truth.
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allelsefails
Welcome.
Whatever you do - Don't get baptized. If nothing else you can just go on with your life and still have contact with your family even if you can't "rescue" them.
Find the questions to keep asking and maybe it will work. I was an elder for 6 years. Studying the 587/607 issue finally opened my eyes to the dishonesty of the JW's. You never know what is going to hit a particular person.
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Whats the most damning of the July 15 2013 changes?
by Crazyguy ina lot of the rank and file at the meetings seem to think some of the changes make more sense but what is the most damning of the changes that may help to wake to some up.
some thing the rank and file will not first see or understand as a big deal?.
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allelsefails
Old Hippie - I think the massive indifference has already begun. Not sure where it goes from here, but it will be insane no matter what they do.
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1969 "fact": You will never grow old in this present system of things
by Ding inawake!
"if you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.
because all the evidence in fulfillment of bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years... therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.
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allelsefails
Ditto to most of these statements. I was assured throughout my life that i would not graduate HS, not have to worry about a career and finances, certainly never need to think about retirement - even using that word is taboo for a JW. Article after article tells people not to even consider it. Now I'm almost 40 my wife is older than me and would like to retire soon..... Trusted prophets of god do not mislead people like this. Just one more proof of "false prophecy".....