Loosie - It is hypocritical for a witness to post on this site at all. She knows it, we all know it. If you support the Governing Body you would not read any of our posts here. They have condemned us all as apostates. They have never answered a single challenge to prove 1914, 144,000 = literal number, numerous false prophecies, pedophiles protected in their congs., their taking the lives of their own followers by condemning transplants, immunizations, blood transfusions, etc. Some witnesses try, but when they change their mind in NY how foolish will you look? I myself started my internet research with the idea to prove the WTS right. Now I feel like a fool. There is no evidence to be found anywhere suporting JWs "unique" beliefs and that is why we see the desperate attempts we see on this site. Reniaa - all my christian love to you, but you are very much on the fence. This makes your argument less than compelling. You should answer your PMs too.
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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103
Further Punishements
by passwordprotected inpraise gathering 2009 is taking place in glasgow this weekend.
we've been given tickets to tonight's concert as a gift.
to explain, praise gathering is a concert with a full orchestra and 400 singers.
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The Case for Unitarianism
by UnDisfellowshipped in* the bible teaches that there is only one true god, only one person who is almighty god, and this one person is the father.
(see john 17:3; john 5:37, 5:44; john 8:54; isaiah 63:15-16; malachi 1:6; 1st corinthians 8:6; ephesians 4:6).
(john 5:19-20; 5:30; 8:28; 12:49).
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allelsefails
I read your post above on the spirit. Very interesting. Raised a JW I've never ascribed the "Spirit" personality, but there are obviously scriptures that do exactly that. However for me the question arises - Why call it the "Holy Spirit"? What does that mean? What does the Bible calling it that reveal about what it/he/her is? Why does the Bible use Father, Son, and Spirit to describe them? Why does a person (the spirit) not have a unique personal name? Thanks for your well researched post and answers. I look forward to your response.
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The Case for Unitarianism
by UnDisfellowshipped in* the bible teaches that there is only one true god, only one person who is almighty god, and this one person is the father.
(see john 17:3; john 5:37, 5:44; john 8:54; isaiah 63:15-16; malachi 1:6; 1st corinthians 8:6; ephesians 4:6).
(john 5:19-20; 5:30; 8:28; 12:49).
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allelsefails
You've given me a lot to think about. I'll do little pieces of responses as I have something useful to add here. When responding to my question of "God by Nature" you used the illustration of husband and wife. They are both clearly human by nature neither "above" the other in abities only in position/resposibility. However one is the husband and one is the wife they are not the same (as my wife and I will attest to). I do believe the "nature of God" is in the Son. Again that is the only way to understand the relationship - my son is by nature my genetic code - he is me, but uniquely different. He has a different position and personality than me, but he is not "me"....... I the "father" am God. He, my son,(even if he is omnipotent) is the Lord Jesus not the God Jesus (1 COR 8:6) He is subserviant to me. He does my will not his own. He does not know all that I know. (Mark 13:32 - International Standard Version - "No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, not the Son, but only the Father.)Yes my son has the potential of me (Father = God), But not the position of me (Father = God). I would be curious too on what basis the holy spirit is scripturally ascribed to the Godhead. A duality more scriptural perhaps? Thanks again. Allelsefails
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If christ loved everyone then why don't christians
by loosie inlove or at least tolerate everyone?.
i had a 13 yr old friend of my daughters visit this weekend.
she told me she was going to bible camp.
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allelsefails
Cameo-d - That's what I'm talkin' about. A realy good quote from a silly movie - "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat." Groups of people always have negatives. Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Academics, WASPS, Blacks, Jews, Asians, Hispanics, Arabs, Aryans, Democrats, Republicans, Communists, Nazis, etc...... Something is wrong with people, but a person (of any religion, ethnicity, etc..) can be fully loved and respected.
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The Case for Unitarianism
by UnDisfellowshipped in* the bible teaches that there is only one true god, only one person who is almighty god, and this one person is the father.
(see john 17:3; john 5:37, 5:44; john 8:54; isaiah 63:15-16; malachi 1:6; 1st corinthians 8:6; ephesians 4:6).
(john 5:19-20; 5:30; 8:28; 12:49).
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allelsefails
I don't have time tonight to put togather a thoughtful answer, but could you describe exactly what the "trinity" you believe in is? Some views are slightly different than others and I am always curious to hear it described. Can you also describe the phrase "God by nature"? I think I understand, but want to make sure. Obviously the nature of God is beyond a human's full comprehension, but the journey to understanding is valuable for itself. Thanks again for your thought provoking post.
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If christ loved everyone then why don't christians
by loosie inlove or at least tolerate everyone?.
i had a 13 yr old friend of my daughters visit this weekend.
she told me she was going to bible camp.
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allelsefails
I always remember Jesus wasn't a christian. He was a Jew! He thought going to synagogue and reading from Moses was a good way to spend your saturday. His brother James was known until the day he died for praying in the Jewish temple everyday (even though he was running the local christian congregation). Christians who judge are not following Christ. Intolerance was never taught by Christ. Good job teaching tolerance to your young one, don't let her get dragged into a situation of "us" and "them". All wars, oppressions, slaveries, have started with "us" and "them".
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The Case for Unitarianism
by UnDisfellowshipped in* the bible teaches that there is only one true god, only one person who is almighty god, and this one person is the father.
(see john 17:3; john 5:37, 5:44; john 8:54; isaiah 63:15-16; malachi 1:6; 1st corinthians 8:6; ephesians 4:6).
(john 5:19-20; 5:30; 8:28; 12:49).
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allelsefails
I need to do a little research to answer intelligently. Here is my brief answer though. I have always believed that God has revealed himself in every way we need to know him. To use the words "father and son" to describe the relationship only makes sense if the father gave life to the son. Otherwise the illustration of their relationship is meaningless. In the society of people Jesus preached to they would clearly understand that a son would be in a lower position than his father. Father is greater than Son no matter how you look at it. As John 1:1 says Jesus was with God, Jesus was of a divine substance. [In my research I have found that the most accurate rendering of the verse. I disgree with WTS "a god" it diminishes Jesus, but using this scripture to prove the trinity is just as flawed. Jesus is the Son therefore he has inherited the same type of power and abilities from his father, but that doesn't make them both the same God.] As 1 Cor 8:6 describes our relationship to the father and son - "yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom everything came into being and for whom we live. And there is only one Lord, Jesus the Messiah, through whom everything came into being and through whom we live." Note the different roles they play in creation. We exist "FROM" our only God the father but "THROUGH" the lord Jesus. God the Father is the source and the Lord Jesus is the channel used to accomplish the work of creation. As I said I will do more research on the above points you mentioned and look up the scriptures and post when I have a more thought out answer. I also have a "bible canon" issue that I'm still working on, If I feel it has merit I will post as well thanks for your insite and thoughts here. Very good logic.
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70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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allelsefails
Scholar - I am an honest Bible student who served as an elder for 6 years, a servant for 4 before that. I have read every publcation the WTS has published in my lifetime and read everything I can get my hands on that has true historic data. I have not seen a single quote from you that shows these scriptures have application beyond Nebuchadnezar. Saying "read it again" is ridiculous. Yes there are literal and figurative elemants to Daniel's writing, but he tells us when they're figurative! read the whole book and you'll see that every prophecy Daniel gives he explains that it has future fullfillment. However there is no future fullfillment of the 7 times prophecy mentioned in Daniel. You are right about one thing though. If you have given you understanding of scripture over to a group of men, then you have no more need to deal with this issue. They have told you what to believe and you should believe it. But anyone who thinks for himself has to deal with this issue. Does the GB claim to be inspired by Jehovah himself? No they recognize that any of there "scriptural understandings" can change at any time. It is Jehovah's fault when they are wrong for not giving them enough light. Please comment no more if you are not willing to quote something! Thanks
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why do you think child molester was so calm in my presence?
by looloo inin answer to the last comment on my previous topic, i decided to approach him at his work so there would be witnesses (in case he got aggressive , which i know he can be ) i needed some form of closure as he never actually went to prison for what he did to my daughter but other victims "minor" charges that he admitted to (he had no choice but to admit to them as his wife already knew about 2 of them and the elders knew about 1 )but untill i had reported him to the police after my daughters disclosure nobody had ever reported him before , had they done so my child would not have been raped and much worse !
any way considering he has told everyone that i got my daughter to make up stories about him that has got him a prison sentence and put on the sex offenders registar for life he was very calm when i appeared with no notice and even greeted me by my name , he tried to convince me my child made it all up and it was "all in her head" bla bla which you would think would make me want to hit him but i felt detached as though it was not really happening , i had waited years for that moment and didnt want to blow it by being violent and perhaps arrested , i told him what i thought of him very calmly and he even admitted something to me that he had denied to the police ,and the reason why my childs charges were dropped !
his answer to me about the way he had led his life was that he is an imperfect man with sinful desires !!!!!!!
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allelsefails
LadyLee - Thanks I can only imagine your pain, and that of other abuse victims. ....... loolooo - I think the mind of the abuser is always wrapped in the mind of a sociopath. It explains how one can be calm in the face of confrontation. The sociopath has no natural sense of right and wrong, no conscience if you will. It is the absolute self-centeredness that allows them to lie or feel they have the right to whatever they take from others. Many turn out to be serial killers or serial rapists. They just don't have the capacity to have empathy for other living things. All my prayers and love. allelsefails
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My JW daughter getting married June 6th
by Gordy intomorrow, or when ever you read this, june 6th, my jw daughter gets married.
i have thought about it since hearing she was getting married.
but i somehow cannot bring myself to go.
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allelsefails
My deepest symapathies for your situation. I know the utter control the the ORG has on families and it makes me crazy. I hope all goes well and you're able to have a relationship with your daughter in the future. Hopefully the ORG will change (not likely) or her attitude will soften (more likely). I do always recommend being the man you need to be and giving what you should give despite anyone else's feelings, but obviously watching someone else give away your daughter is a burden no one should bear. Peace be to you.