they are so old they dont have use for money. friends, family and a feeling they still matter is what they are in for. and personal conviction, ofcourse. as i understood COC they might not believe all their doctrines are true, but they do believe they are doing gods will and they really are the FDS....
Posts by bohm
-
11Would GB members succumb to financial temptation?
by TJ - iAmCleared2Land inthere have been many threads about how to "bring down" the wt organization.
the conversation usually ends with the realization that a large religious organization is usually fairly self-sustaining, due to the believer's vested interests in preserving their "illusion", and the fact that the gb and long-term bethel members have nothing to fall back on--no retirement, no place to live, no skills.. so... do you think that any gb members would succumb to the temptation of a large financial reward (millions) to "give up the ruse" and "come out" with the truth about "the truth"?
say, if offered $5m, a nice place to live, etc., would any of them give up bethel life and come forward like franz did, spilling the beans?.
-
-
-
10
Two simple (stupid) questions about 607..
by bohm inim researching the societys position on 607, and so far i got two questions i havent been able to find the answer to.
it is about the following scripture:.
in the third year of the kingship of je?hoia?kim the king of judah, neb?u?chad?nezzar the king of babylon came to jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it.
-
-
bohm
Im researching the societys position on 607, and so far i got two questions i havent been able to find the answer to. It is about the following scripture:
In the third year of the kingship of Je?hoi′a?kim the king of Judah, Neb?u?chad?nez′zar the king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it. 2 In time Jehovah gave into his hand Je?hoi′a?kim the king of Judah and a part of the utensils of the house of the [true] God, so that he brought them to the land of Shi′nar to the house of his god; and the utensils he brought to the treasure-house of his god.
3 Then the king said to Ash′pe?naz his chief court official to bring some of the sons of Israel and of the royal offspring and of the nobles, 4 children in whom there was no defect at all, but good in appearance and having insight into all wisdom and being acquainted with knowledge, and having discernment of what is known, in whom also there was ability to stand in the palace of the king; and to teach them the writing and the tongue of the Chal?de′ans. 5 Furthermore, to them the king appointed a daily allowance from the delicacies of the king and from his drinking wine, even to nourish them for three years, that at the end of these they might stand before the king.
6 Now there happened to be among them some of the sons of Judah, Daniel, Han?a?ni′ah, Mish′a?el and Az?a?ri′ah. 7 And to them the principal court official went assigning names. So he assigned to Daniel [the name of] Bel?te?shaz′zar; and to Han?a?ni′ah, Sha′drach; and to Mish′a?el, Me′shach; and to Az?a?ri′ah, A?bed′ne?go. (daniel 1:1-7)1) Why is it so important that Daniel was not taken captive by nebuchanezzar in king Jehoiakims 3 year (corresponding to nebuchadnezzars 1 year) that they are willing to bend scripture? (daniel 1:1-2)
2) The only real argument i have found for the societys position is that daniel 1:5 says daniel had to be with the king for 3 years before he could 'stand before him'. We later learn he interpret dreams in king nebuchanezzars 2 year. (daniel 2:1). This is used to argue that daniel somehow used a strange system where he dated FROM jerusalems destruction. Personally, i think this is a pretty weak point, and i imediately think that perhaps neb pulled in daniel to interpret the dream before he had planned to (ie the 3 years had elapsed), however, i would like to get your point of view on this particular argument.
Thanks to anyone who wants to bite!
-
20
How do you reply...
by Albert Einstein in... when you have a fine and fair discussion with a jw over some spiritual "jw controversy",.
he brings his facts, you bring your facts, .
your facts are beating his facts,.
-
-
bohm
hm. I *think* that sound like a thought-terminating cliches; which mean he is under mind control and whatever you say will only make it worse. (correct me if i am wrong).
I think the best approach is to wait a day, and then tell him 'Look, the other day when we talked, you said i was not being humble. I have thought a lot about it, and i would like to talk about about what being humble mean so we wont end up in that situation'.
Then make him agree that being humble mean you must be able to get critisism, that you must not submit to dogma, that you must react on the message, not the messenger, that you can be wrong. Tell him you feel now you were not being humble when you were in the truth, because you was not really examining the bible in a humble spirit, ie. accepting you might be wrong and might need to be corrected....
-
9
'But i hear all sorts of different views in the ministry'
by bohm ini have heard this a couple of times:.
evil apostate: if, for example, a friend of you who wanted to be a mormon said: 'i have studied mormon throughoutly: its history, what it says, what the critics say, and i am sure mr. smith was under divine influence and this is the truth', but what if he had only studied mr. smith from mormon litterature - ie.
what mr. smith himself said about himself, his opposers, etc.. would you really think he had done a throughout examination?.
-
-
bohm
JABBERWOCK: As you can properly tell, i drill him on this question pretty much every time we meet. I actually asked him exactly what you wrote. The response? "Well, if someone want to do that, that is their descision. But personally, I dont feel i have a need to do that" (arms crossed, defensive body posture).
BLACK SHEEP: Oh yes oh yes. My current position, that i also tell him pretty much every time we meet, is that i am very impressed by jehovahs witnesses and how they base what they teach on the bible. However, even for wrong doctrines (such as the trinity), it is possible to select quotes that make it look like the bible has support of it, so in order to really know something is bible based you got to go in depth. One of those doctrines that i think every christian MUST go in depth which, and which is paramount for my own faith, is that of the FDS.
I personally think an argument about their teachings in 1919 is the STRONGEST against jw, but i doubt its the most effective. I have asked him a couple of times about what would falsify his belief in jehovahs witnesses, and he keep returning to 'well, that we teach something which is not in the bible'. For that reason, and because it smell the least 'apostate', i have chosen to focus on the 70 years and 607. More specifically, reading a couple of chapters of jeremiah and then look at questions like 'which countries did the prophecy apply to?' etc. I will only bring in history if/when he does.
But for now, we have both age regressed to puplic school where we read out loud to each other from the yellow book. last time i learned that spirits are superstitious nonsence ignorant, delusional people believe in. Unless they are deamons, BECAUSE THEN THEY ARE REALLY DANGEROUS!!!!!!111111111
-
12
Need Help!
by CandleSurgeon ini got this message on youtube and i am trying to think of the best way to respond to this person to possibly help them.
any suggestions?.
absoulutly sensational .. you traded in eternal life for the pleasure of carving a pumpkin in late october.
-
-
bohm
that is a very loving answer indeed jamie...
-
9
'But i hear all sorts of different views in the ministry'
by bohm ini have heard this a couple of times:.
evil apostate: if, for example, a friend of you who wanted to be a mormon said: 'i have studied mormon throughoutly: its history, what it says, what the critics say, and i am sure mr. smith was under divine influence and this is the truth', but what if he had only studied mr. smith from mormon litterature - ie.
what mr. smith himself said about himself, his opposers, etc.. would you really think he had done a throughout examination?.
-
-
bohm
I have heard this a couple of times:
evil apostate: If, for example, a friend of you who wanted to be a mormon said: 'I have studied mormon throughoutly: its history, what it says, what the critics say, and i am sure mr. Smith was under divine influence and this is the truth', but what if he had only studied mr. Smith from mormon litterature - ie. what mr. Smith himself said about himself, his opposers, etc.. Would you really think he had done a throughout examination?
JW: Well, look: I go door to door every week. I hear all sorts of arguments from all kind of religion. If any of them could show something jw believed in was not in the bible, I think i would have heard it by now.
What is a good counter-argument to keep the conversation on the counter-mind-control track?
-
8
New From HAPPYDUB Inc: The "Between-Doors-Buddy"
by Rumspringa inover on jwr, i'm known as nightgoat.
this is my first post on jwnet as rumspringa .thought i'd take some shots @ the org from your corner of the pool.. a new site "the laughing apostate" is soon to be up that specialize's in anti-dub humour for those that have been out for awhile & whose scar tissue won't mind some sick n' twisted org-bashing.. .
pioneers!!!.
-
-
bohm
haha! :-). So Baptists are the worst?
-
39
I told my wife I will start pioneering next month ...
by Albert Einstein in... if she will prove me from the bible accuracy of 1914. and i stressed i really mean it.. we had one of the usual evening discussions and this was the result.. she said she is not ready for this and must do some preparation and aditional study (which is funny for somebody raised up in a hard-core jw family, baptized over 25 years, who spent over a decade in regular pioneering, reads wt for hours every week and have brought several people into jw cult...).
but ok, she pulled out several publications and is doing her preparation now and tonight we will have the discussion.. to motivate her i told her:.
1) if you will be succesfull i will go to preach to everybody in our street about 1914/607 during my pioneering.
-
-
bohm
AE: There is a quote floating around where Fred Franz himself debunk the idea of a GB in jerusalem. Its from a convention. You can give it to her without telling the source and let her redicule it before telling her who said it.... ;-).
-
19
The Last Extinction What Caused It?
by frankiespeakin ini've been hunting around on the nova site-"last extinction".
http://video.pbs.org/video/1108903659/.
-
-
bohm
awen: you know that rotational energy of earth is about 2*10^29 joules right? an asteroid large enough to change earths rotational axis, precession, etc. would need to contain at least a fraction of that energy (potential, kinetic, etc). Dont you think that would be significant in a boil-away-the-oceans kind of way?
Other problem: Where is the global irridium layer? Where is the dust in the ice cores?
-
18
Crudely animated JW Debate...
by Tuesday inhey everyone, i posted a video form of a comment debate on my channel.
the jw was really arrogant and i figured i should bring it to everyone's attention that he did horrible in the debate lol.
it's crudely animated, it's funny due to a chipmunk voice, but people have said they can learn from the technique i used in disarming every one of the usual jw techniques for "winning" biblical debates.
-
-
bohm
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Thats the most funny thing i saw today!!! I love the way you pointed out the rethorical fallacies to him, and how he ended up rubber-stamping you an apostate when he realized he was cornered!
I really hope you will give him a chance for a rematch :-D.