Posts by Introspection

26

Can trust ever be earned once it is lost?

by butalbee in

in a relationship, their is 3 basic components: .

1. trust.

2. loyalty.

Introspection

Could true repentance be defined as crying every second of the day cuz you feel horrible that you destroyed the one true thing that you ever had in your life, all for absolutely nothing????

Well as I was trying to say, it seems to be that for repentance to be meaningful for someone who claims to love you, they have to be sorry that they hurt you, not that as a result of that you can't trust them anymore and that hurts them. (the wrongdoer) In the latter case it's out of a love for what they get out of the relationship, not for the other person or the relationship itself.

To me a true broken heart (which of course generally happens when a person really feels bad about what they did or what's happend) breaks all of the person's wants, not WHAT they want but the want ITSELF. This means that their heart is no longer just open to what they want, but it is completely broken open and is actually able to be sensitive to love itself, and not just pleasant feelings that might be disguised as love. Out of that, I think, comes a desire to really make amends regardless of what might come of that, if anything at all. There is no longer a sense of personal gain, but as weak as you may feel somehow love issues out of that, (although in actuality this may take a while) because it is no longer limited to the personal perspective. If we can get there, I think even as low as we might feel the other person can't help but see that there is real love there now, and that what has emerged is truer than anything that's ever been in the relationship. Because ultimately, when all that's said and done it's whether love is present isn't it? But that has to be genuine, where you're not really just looking for self interest. However, the other person has to also recognize that too, so even if that's there there really is no guarantee that they will forgive you. But of course, real love does not have any ulterior motive, you love because it is loving, it is it's own reward regardless of gain or loss on any other level.

26

Can trust ever be earned once it is lost?

by butalbee in

in a relationship, their is 3 basic components: .

1. trust.

2. loyalty.

Introspection

I don't mean to go off topic here, but it is related anyway.. Has anyone ever seen what they believe to be true repentance? In terms of a relationship, it would of course be out of regret that they hurt the other person, NOT that THEY LOST you or your trust. I don't think this is the only thing required in order for someone to forgive (which of course would be something else that's necessary) them, but it is one of the things that's necessary.

4

Dinner with DF'd friend tonight-thoughts.....

by ashitaka in

it was pretty nice, haven't seen this person in a few years.

we talked a bit about the bad stuff, but it was pretty healing for us to have an old friend to talk to honestly about all of our feeling about the jws.

i've just been reading the threads about bill, pandelos, etc, and i can't help but feel great about you guys.. i met neablis, and he was awesome.

Introspection

I've accepted where I've been, am satisfied with the current set of circumstances, and am working towards becoming a great man, both to my wife, but to everyone I come in contact with, and not for some dream where I lord it over people in a fantasy world, but to be able to give something meaningful to people right now, in an imperfect world. It's always a struggle in the real life, but being a good person MEANS SOMETHING outside of the org, and I'm going to take advantage of it and become a good man.

Good for you Jim, that's the only real way to be a good person when you get right down to it. You're doing it for it's own sake, not because of what others think or any potential pay offs. The truly good person is good simply because they are a good person, not because they've heard that doing this or that makes you good. Those people are only trying to be good, it sounds like you're actually in touch with your innate kindness.

26

Can trust ever be earned once it is lost?

by butalbee in

in a relationship, their is 3 basic components: .

1. trust.

2. loyalty.

Introspection

Well okay, I think it has to do with the person developing trust in others in general, and not just one person. Sure, they may be more important, even the most important individual, but if they don't have enough integrity to deal with people in a way that elicit some kind of trust, even if it is in small measure, then why should you trust them? I might add, too, that that kind of trust do not necessarily have to be manifested in an intimate relationship of a romantic nature. Basically, it's a matter of being a trustworthy person, not just with one person but with everyone they come in contact with. After all, you gotta wonder if you're right if nobody else feels that way, right?

Beyond that, I think we really would need more specific information in order to come up with more specific "answers" ...

26

Can trust ever be earned once it is lost?

by butalbee in

in a relationship, their is 3 basic components: .

1. trust.

2. loyalty.

Introspection

Interesting statement there yrs2, so I guess we might say it is whether you can trust your understanding.. It does seem that often you hear "you think you know a person.." when something happens..

26

Can trust ever be earned once it is lost?

by butalbee in

in a relationship, their is 3 basic components: .

1. trust.

2. loyalty.

Introspection

Hi Butalbee, I think we might consider one other component to have a more complete model, and that's understanding. It seems to me the qualities of trust and loyalty must be anchored in understanding, and that each of these really are intimately connected with each other.

So, as far as trust is concerned, it would depend on whether there is anything worth basing it on with a clear understanding of the person and the relationship. It would seem that often because there is still some love attached there, there is a seeking for the trust and loyalty. Of course, this isn't literally something you look for, as if it's an object sitting out there somewhere. A person has to earn your trust and loyalty, and that of course depends on you and your relationship with them. I would suggest though that you do not need to know what it is or what it looks like in order to recognize it when it comes, though. If there is any doubt, it isn't real trust. After all, that is the nature of trust isn't it? But just base it on an understanding of the relationship and the people involved. The common pitfall is to convince yourself that you have that trust because you want it so bad.

11

Being truly free

by Introspection in

some of the messages on the board have prompted me to think about this a bit, seeing as how it appears to be a theme that resurfaces every so often.

actually, one of the reasons i'm posting a separate thread is that the other ones which brings this up is usually about something more specific and has gotten really long, and to be perfectly frank i don't have the time to read through it, but i think the issue is an important one.. we can be free from the wts physically, but a certain pattern of thinking sticks with us a bit longer as i'm sure many of us are well aware.

naturally, when you're out you're going to go out into the world and explore, doing this and that, the "normal" people stuff you might say.

Introspection

Thanks Larc, I don't think I've ever been gone, though there may be longer pauses at times.

Elsewhere .. err, interesting thought. Of course, I'm speaking of being free from your own mind, and you have to envision running butt naked down the street in your mind before actually doing it. This, of course, means that we have to be able to stomach seeing ourselves running butt naked down the street, not an easy task for many of us..

33

Help! I have fallen in love with a Witness

by itsalingthing in

i recently started dating my neighbor.

a couple of nights into the late night talks, he told me the reason he hasn't dated in awhile is beacuse he is a witness.

i was surprised, but okay with it.

Introspection

Itsalingthing,

Remember, that all of the ex-JW that responded, were once not ex. You were right there with him and held the same beliefs. Something, or someone, gave you the courage to leave. Maybe I am that for him.

I would view this in a slightly different way. I don't think anyone can give you courage or a reason for anything, but rather you may be the reason FOR THEM. That means it goes back to them, if they think that's the case. It's not exactly this way for everyone, either. In my case it was DIScouragement, but that's another story.

joining will have to be MY decision, and MINE alone.

Good for you. And this is exactly what I'm talking about - leaving would have to be his decision, if he decides to leave. But that is really secondary.

The one simple question you have to ask is what you each want out of the relationship, isn't it? If someone profess to believe one thing and yet behaves in another way, that should give you reason to pause and consider just what he really wants. It may be that he himself doesn't even know yet. Of course, this doesn't mean he's a bad person, but just how do you build a relationship if one of you don't know what he wants?

11

Being truly free

by Introspection in

some of the messages on the board have prompted me to think about this a bit, seeing as how it appears to be a theme that resurfaces every so often.

actually, one of the reasons i'm posting a separate thread is that the other ones which brings this up is usually about something more specific and has gotten really long, and to be perfectly frank i don't have the time to read through it, but i think the issue is an important one.. we can be free from the wts physically, but a certain pattern of thinking sticks with us a bit longer as i'm sure many of us are well aware.

naturally, when you're out you're going to go out into the world and explore, doing this and that, the "normal" people stuff you might say.

Introspection

Hi Zanex,

I think I'm with you. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for questioning if nothing else, but what I mean by that is why affirm a belief of 'I can never get past this', or that I can only go this far? Instead of thinking that, (which is really not thinking per se, it's just another belief) I say by all means critically analyze it. See, if you think I can't ever get over this, then you are really limiting your own freedom in a way. If it is true to some degree, at the present time, fine then it is. But if you say that to yourself over and over then you're not doing yourself any favors, that's what I mean. Now if you want to treat it as your best guess based on what you can gather right now, then that's fine. But all I'm saying is don't go any farther than that, and do take the attitude that it is ONLY how things look right now, not as an absolute truth. Make sense?

33

Help! I have fallen in love with a Witness

by itsalingthing in

i recently started dating my neighbor.

a couple of nights into the late night talks, he told me the reason he hasn't dated in awhile is beacuse he is a witness.

i was surprised, but okay with it.

Introspection

The answer to this and a lot of other questions on this board is actually fairly simple, or can be summed up atleast in a simple way. You just have to ask the question: "Am I willing to face the truth?" All other things are details. We tell ourselves we're willing to this and that to get this or that or him or her, but none of that matters if it's based on a false belief in the first place, and I'm not even speaking of the religion at this point. Another way of putting it is just be honest with yourself, and don't develop this tunnel vision and only look at what you want, because when that happens there's usually a tendancy to only see what you want to see, even about that object of desire, not to mention everything else that goes with it.

"Who can face the knowledge that the truth is not the truth?" -Rush, Distant Early Warning