Posts by Introspection

26

Who or What is God? Who Cares?

by MrMoe in

lately i find myself struggling with the simple fact that i do not believe there is a god, let alone any realm beyond the physical realm we are aware of.

as many of you who know me know i am fond of tarot and astrology, for sometime now i find myself doubting the real significance of it all.

is there more to life than this?

Introspection

Amanda, I'm not sure what your current email is but I'd like to email you directly - I can go back and try to find some in my mailbox but it would be hit or miss. I touched on some of this though in my last reply in Siddhashunyata's thread on "Your faith is your weakness." I'll try to catch you in chat, but if you're open to it please email me so I can email you back.

First of all, I'm sure you already realize how wise your daughter is, as far as I'm concerned that wisdom comes from being in touch with ones true nature. Along the line of the above thead's subject, though, I've found that the most spiritual people (for whatever that's worth) are those who do not need beliefs. By that I mean you don't need to believe that God exists or that God doesn't exist, or even the concept that God or nature is in the likeness of human beings or amorphous or any conceptual framework whatsoever - because that's all mind stuff rather than the real thing. This to me is nothingness - not the nothingness of looking in an empty refrigerator when you're hungry, but pure potentiality. In one piece of spiritual writing it says that form is emptiness and emptiness is form, that kind of sums it up.

It seems to me that you are truly interested and asking from your heart, but I would just note that it's best to use the mind as a tool rather than letting it use you. You have an honest and open heart that's reflected in your daughter, I feel confident to say just listen to your heart. Hope to hear from you via email - I have one thing to share that I think you'd enjoy.

Love,

Mark

5

Your weakness is your Faith

by Siddhashunyata in

jw
friends

i used to say this to an authentic christian who happened to be a jehovah's witness.

it was because he allowed himself to be abused within the organization.

they knew the kind of person he was and they took advantage of his faith in god.

Introspection

Hi Siddha,

I think given the background you've shared, it's not so useful for us to get into any technical details, but I think it's worth pointing out that the issue is one of identity. But there again, concepts have to be seen for what they are. This question "Do you still consider yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses?" is merely a question of conceptual identity.

Dear readers, what you consider yourself is not the same thing as what you actually ARE - and what you are is not changed in one instant regardless of your answer to any such simple question, one way or the other. The fact that such a question might be asked is itself a betrayal of the lack of any kind of real faith on the part of the person asking the question, because they are, whether they realize it or not, interested in only what you THINK rather than YOU. (not that we're talking about 'faith in men' as you know it, but just faith in any living fact rather than a dead concept) Of course, my invitation here is for you who may find it useful to also consider any kind of identity crisis you may have, to see it's very nature - that it is secondary (by far) to the real thing. I am not really concerned with how you choose to identify yourself or what kind of identity you might want to wear, but just look at your own self rather than these ideas. The real thing is always better than some representation, especially highly symbolic and simplistic ones like "I'm one of .." whatevers. If you insist on that approach why not atleast start with considering yourself one of the human race? Just don't go looking in the dictionary to see what the definition of a member of the human race is, just look in your heart.

Edited by - Introspection on 14 December 2002 22:33:2

2

How does a believer differ from an unbeliever?

by cellomould in

.

a believer is certain that uncertainty is to be avoided at all costs.. an unbeliever is uncertain that certainty is to be sought at all costs.. .

cell

Introspection

I don't know.. Should I believe that?

5

Your weakness is your Faith

by Siddhashunyata in

jw
friends

i used to say this to an authentic christian who happened to be a jehovah's witness.

it was because he allowed himself to be abused within the organization.

they knew the kind of person he was and they took advantage of his faith in god.

Introspection

Hi Siddha. Interesting things you bring up. I'm sure there's a significant amount of background which I'm not up to date on, but I'm sure you can imagine that there are some who will have trouble to deceive and lie outright. However, you certainly bring up things worth considering.

edited to add: (by the way, I'm writing this for others too so though I'm sure there are things here you already know, I'm giving more of an explanation for people in general)

Lets talk faith. Instead of trying to define a word which people will have issues over, lets just be clear what we're talking about here. In the case of this person that you're talking about, it's evident you are distinguishing between two factors - his faith in God and his belief/attachment/whatever to the WTBS. It seems to me the failure to distinguish between the two is where the problem begins. Of course, the actual problem in a more general sense is mind, just as any mind who is reading this now is probably having some reaction to words like faith and god. But because we do use the mind to distinguish and most people aren't willing to go into some territory unfamiliar to the mind that doesn't involve belief, we might as well stick with mind. It seems to me most people will agree that faith in general in whatever form it takes is not a problem, but faith in the JW doctrine is. This of course is what we call illusion eh? But I think maybe the most important point is the fact that any doctrine is simply dead, rules and concepts. For faith to be worth anything it needs to be alive in some sense. For most people faith in life itself is too big and not comprehensible, so unless they come to that point on their own I guess the most useful thing might just be to put their faith in something that's alive. (well, I want to make the disclaimer "not elders" here but ..) The point is one has to develop this thing called wisdom of the heart. It's not even a matter of their rules and regulations because again it's all dead whoever they're from or whatever they are. Anyways, since trusting in people is an iffy issue, I say trust your heart - but be completely and totally honest with yourself, don't believe what you want to or what happens to make you feel good. In other words, you have to REALLY want the truth, whatever it is. Don't get attached to some authority or parental figure (for either knowledge or comfort) but do test it out over time, always see what's going on now in this moment. I don't say that like you can just listen to them blindly after awhile, but rather you won't need to blindly believe in anyone once you have what I'm calling 'wisdom of the heart' here. Now this may sound like you can't trust anyone, but in fact you know when there are people you can trust because 1. They're not in some kind of authoritarian-ish position even if they are smart and wise - there's this thing called humility (besides wisdom would dictate that they let you find your own way) and 2. They trust you. They have faith in you.

I'm not gonna get into the issue of integrity, because as you said it is an internal business and for that matter we have no choice but to leave it up to the individual. I would suggest, however that one dispenses with the ideas (yet more mind stuff in the form of belief) of things like morality and honor since they are only models as I like to say, doctrine. Just be yourself. Ultimately, one cannot help but return to their true nature, right?

Edited by - Introspection on 14 December 2002 1:38:33

7

Despair

by Introspection in

www.despair.com

Introspection

www.despair.com

12

Holidays of Sadness

by Seven in

find it on mhm

mhm web.

mental health articles psychological disorders treatments for mental illness mental health support forums .

Introspection

It feels so good to FINALLY be able to say that without looking over my shoulder. It's been buried deep in heart for so many years struggling to get out. I give myself permission this year to experience the joy without all the guilt. The lights, the tree, the cards, the cookies and parties. Most of all-the happiness.

Thank you for posting this Seven. I haven't been reading the board actually but your thread caught my eye. I would say that it's really giving yourself the permission to be yourself, isn't it? And when you put it in a statement like that isn't it ridiculous to be anything else? And to me it's not even the happiness, but the love. I actually stopped caring about holidays when I became a Witness, not that I was a big holiday person before - but what I appreciate is the love that's shown. I mean people (like Witnesses) can whine about how it's been commercialized and this and that, but the fact remains that there is love there, and anyone who doesn't see that is really walking around with a closed heart.

Thanks again Seven, it's evident that you really care and I'm sure you bring a ray of sunshine to those you serve in your volunteer activities.

---

Hey Danny, I just ran into some Mormons the other night. (yeah I know it's not the same, but it's not that different either right ) We had a brief conversation, but at one point one of the "elders" asked me if and what faith I belonged to, and I said I don't have a particular faith or beliefs, I just have faith. Evidently the two guys appreciated that - if only they knew it was from the movie Dogma!

At this point I almost wish I would run into the witnesses - there are some days where I wouldn't care to bother because I just have other things to do, but when I have the time I wouldn't mind. I hate to use this language as it is metaphorical, but the shift of power can be on your side rather than with the Witnesses. (the guilty feeling etc.) I have had a couple of conversations like this with them, I still concern myself with stumbling someone but in a different sense of course. I was talking to someone about this and the issue of the word faith came up, and it occurred to me that by faith I guess I just mean potentiality, in other words the possibilities rather than any certainty. And I guess that goes for Witnesses and Mormons as well, you never know..

*edited to quote the quote..

Edited by - Introspection on 12 December 2002 11:15:40

9

Life is life and it's so boring

by Nicolas in

i have a been a little jehovah witness from the age of five years old to the age of eighteen and i still can't find a way to appreciate the life.

now i'm nineteen years old and i don't know what to do with this life and i'm almost always at my computer, in my bedroom.

why the hell do i don't go outdoor to do some funny activities?

Introspection

Hi Nicolas,

Well most people don't want to talk about suicide, but I think a good question you might ask is: What wants to die? My guess is it's probably the social phobia, anxiety and so on. I mean who would want the good stuff to die, right?

I'm not going to try and tell you what's true since that's never going to be as good as you finding out for yourself, but I can say it seems to me that sometimes these things just has to run its course. I would say be careful about forcing yourself into some mold though because people say you're supposed to be outgoing and social, be anxiety free and all that stuff. I'm sure you'd like to be that way like the rest of us, it's nice to be mellow and relaxed - but if you try to force it that just adds another level of stress doesn't it? Maybe first you were just anxious about any old thing, now you're anxious about your anxiety - or maybe you're afraid that your phobia isn't going away as quickly as it's supposed to and so on. I think your quote is good advice you might give yourself - just be true. By all means work on getting where you want to be, but don't fake it. If you're experiencing your phobia or anxiety, don't pretend it isn't there. Just be honest with yourself.

I've been where you've been, when I was younger I had people tell me to go out and be social. However, what I've found is simply that I am not interested in socializing for it's own sake, it's just empty. I'm not afraid of people anymore, and I suppose I'm just kind of picky with who I hang out with. It doesn't mean I don't want to have anything to do with everybody else, I just won't stick with them like glue because that's not what I want. So just listen to yourself and see what you want, moment by moment. Sometimes you get advice and it seems like a multiple choice situation, but it isn't. There are a lot of possibilities. Just look in yourself for the answer, but hopefully some of this can help you find it there.

15

Happiness in a Box?

by Satanus in

is it possible to get happiness from a little box w a small computer inside?

i read about this kind of stuff in scifi books.

the future is now.

Introspection

Hey SS and others.

Try searching under Cranial-Electro Stimulation or CES, there's another term I can't remember now but that ought to get you started. It's not new, there are a number of devices of this nature and it has been used in clinical settings and studied. Been there, done that, got one, got bored, moved on. Oh, it's worked though, but it's just not what I would call happiness, although it has been used for substance abuse treatment.

BTW I won't be following this thread, so if you REALLY wanted to contact me try email, but... don't bug me - I mean that in the nicest way of course. Anyways the chat is here with all the numerous people. Enjoy.

Edited by - Introspection on 9 December 2002 1:8:24

5

Working on yourself

by Introspection in

are you working on yourself or working on your ideas?

often some of those beliefs will be tied into a person's sense of self, but i think there's something to be said about being direct.

this is very hard to talk about, especially online, but the fact is when we just throw out concepts it's easier to be distant to it, and even things which may be close to our hearts are only that, things.

Introspection

Well, all I was trying to say was you have to first see yourself and then you're able work on it, whatever it is - rather than just have all these nice ideas and in effect be doing a lot of empty work around it. Techniques for self-help could become a sort of defense mechanism, to the point where you never even really take an honest look at yourself much less start to "work on" yourself. To look at it from another perspective, a lot of people are self centered in their views, and they don't realize it. Instead of asking "why do I think this way?" it's more likely that they want to get other people to agree with them and do what they want, they are the center of the universe. Even if you are after some kind of self-improvement, you've got this idea, this picture in your head of what an improved self should look like. So I don't mean having a particular goal in mind, but I guess it's just a matter of being able to deal with life. To be frank and blunt, most people's attitude seems to be that life isn't cooperating, that it should be how they think it should be - that kind of sums it up. Now we are of course all participants, but then all you have to do is participate, getting worked up about something that's plainly a fact is just not going to get you anywhere. Now maybe someone is just in the habit of getting worked up in some way, well then don't get worked up about that. It's an opportunity to see yourself, not as the behavior, mental or otherwise (which is just another concept) but through it. What I'm saying is actually so retardedly simple that it's a wonder why it needs to be said at all, but people seems to try the more technical stuff before some of these basics, who knows why.. Is it any wonder why human beings have problems with each other? If you can't even accept yourself and be with yourself, how are you going to accept someone else?

Edited by - Introspection on 3 October 2002 5:23:20

5

Working on yourself

by Introspection in

are you working on yourself or working on your ideas?

often some of those beliefs will be tied into a person's sense of self, but i think there's something to be said about being direct.

this is very hard to talk about, especially online, but the fact is when we just throw out concepts it's easier to be distant to it, and even things which may be close to our hearts are only that, things.

Introspection

Are you working on yourself or working on your ideas? Often some of those beliefs will be tied into a person's sense of self, but I think there's something to be said about being direct. This is very hard to talk about, especially online, but the fact is when we just throw out concepts it's easier to be distant to it, and even things which may be close to our hearts are only that, things. It seems to me that it can be very easy to look at all these issues and convince yourself that you are working on yourself when you're only working on anything other than yourself, be it changing some ideas (or more typically, accepting some new ones and rejecting some oldies) or trying to get other people to change. Of course, in this case all you're really doing is avoiding what you have to deal with, right here and now. Atleast those who admit they are afraid to do that are honest enough to acknowledge that they are doing it, (or not) whereas people who develop another sense of self based on some nice ideas they read about (which can of course be useful, but dealing with those ideas doesn't necessarily mean you are dealing with yourself) are really only dealing with ideas, even if one of those ideas is that they are working on themselves.

I'd like to say more about this, but I think it's one of those things that will only get confused if you talk about it too much. Ideas about this abound don't they? Whether you're working with someone or just doing some kind of self-help, there's a ton of information out there. I'm sure different kinds of work is very helpful for different people, but as obvious as it may sound please try to keep in mind that whatever you do, you've gotta deal with yourself. Maybe it's clearer to see in a relationship. You might read something like John Gray's book on Mars and Venus or something, but at the end of the day you have to deal with the partner you want to have a relationship with, and the book just isn't THAT specific! There is a specific guy/gal you are relating with, it's the same thing only it's with yourself. Beyond that basic fact though, also just keep in mind that you are dealing with a living breathing human being, which is beyond any theories about them, any day. Now don't get the idea that I am saying it's a problem, but I guess you could say even just looking at life is better than just thinking about it. How about this: I live, therefore I am.