Posts by PSacramento

19

Revelation 19:1 omitted from NWT index?

by DATA-DOG in

i am just curious about something.

the term great crowd of other sheep does not exist in the scriptures.

while looking into the great crowd of revelation i noticed that revelation 19:1 is not included in the index under the term great crowd.

PSacramento

In Revelation 1: 4 we have the seven spirits that are before His throne:

John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who [fn]is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

The greek word for "before" is enopion, which means:

In precense of or before ( location).

IN Revelation 7:9

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

The greek word for "before" the throne is: enopion.

The writer of Revelation makes it clear that, in both cases, the seven spirits and the great crowd are before the throne of God.

So, BOTH are in Heaven at that time because that is where the throne of God ( and the Lamb) are.

16

How to fight biblical ignorance??

by srd in

jw
friends

the bible this; the bible that; 'tis the word of the almighty.

we all be following its every word... blah, blah, blah.

many biblical scholars lament the fact that the bible is the most misunderstood, abused, and appropriated text by numerous different religious communities, each one claiming to provide its right interpretation, while ironically supporting their own belief system.

PSacramento

I think that if your point is to show how the various authors of the various books of the bible ( and editors and later copyists) all have varied views about God that, at times, seems to contridict each other, then this is a really good project and endveour you are undertaking.

I am NOT sure if "contridictions" is the right word to use since they may not all be contridictions per say.

contradiction [?k?ntr?'d?k??n]

n 1. the act of going against; opposition; denial 2. a declaration of the opposite or contrary 3. a statement that is at variance with itself (often in the phrase a contradiction in terms) 4. conflict or inconsistency, as between events, qualities, etc. 5. a person or thing containing conflicting qualities 6. (Philosophy / Logic) Logic a statement that is false under all circumstances; necessary falsehood Just remember to note that you are stating your opinion and I suggest that you also post any apologetic answer to these contradictions you will be addressing. Good luck and God speed to you.

54

If Jesus is god???!!!

by El_Guapo in

jw
friends

(john 8:42; 1 john 4:9).

(mt.

PSacramento

An honest question, Is there any difference in the nature of "God" and the nature of "a god"??

A good question, yes.

First it should be noted that, biblically, the Judeo-Christians religions accept that there are "gods" and not just GOD.

There is only ONE supreme creator God, yes, but there are also other beings that are called "gods" and worshipped as such, these are false gods according to the bible.

Some view them as fallen angels passing themselves off as gods or angels that have been misunderstood as gods as their "stories" have been told down through the ages.

The issue of nature is this:

What is begotten of soemthing has the same nature as that something BUT what is created does NOT.

Christ being begotten of The Father, has the same nature as The Father BUT all other "gods" were created by God so they do NOT have the same nature, though they MAY reflect certain qualities ( in a far lesser state of being) of God.

5

YRM (Yahweh's Restoration Movement) - Out-JWing the JWs?

by Apognophos in

just thought i would point out another religion that shares many of the jws' teachings, including non-trinitarianism and emphasis on god's name: http://www.yrm.org/yrm_statement_of%20belief.htm.

interestingly, they lean even further towards preserving the jewish covenant than witnesses do.

i didn't know it was possible to lean this far while still believing in jesus!

PSacramento

Almost like Messianc Jews, but the Messiancs believe in the Trinity.

54

If Jesus is god???!!!

by El_Guapo in

jw
friends

(john 8:42; 1 john 4:9).

(mt.

PSacramento

The Trinity ( in regards to Jesus) is best described in this two passages from Paul:

Philippians 2:5-11

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 2:9-15

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

Jesus has the same Nature as The Father and, just like a human son who shares his human nature with his father, Christ shares His Divine Nature with His Father and, if His Father is God ( A statement of Whoi and WHat the Father is, not a name), then Chris is God.

The only people that have issues with the Trinity doctrine are those that associate the word God with the PERSONAL identity of The Father of Christ.

To them, God = The Father ( another name, sole title, etc) so to claim that Christ was God is, to them, to claim that Christ is His Own Father.

13

Salon article on how the internet is killing religion (references Jwfacts!)

by JonathanH in

jw
friends

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/16/religion_may_not_survive_the_internet/.

congrats to our very on jwfacts for getting a shout out from salon.

the part where the mention jehovah's witnesses links to jwfacts.com.. .

PSacramento

The great thing about the internet is that people will find what they are looking for.

The bad thing about the internet is that people will find what they are looking for.

88

what takes away salvation

by jhine in

i am certain that the watchtower society is of the devil , they tell so many lies to cover up their false doctrines and satan is the father of all lies .

so logically somewhere in those false doctrines there is something that prevents the rank and file from receiving salvation as satan works so hard to keep them in "the truth " does anyone else agree with that statement ?

if so, what is it in their teaching that keeps them from the free gift of salvation that comes by the grace of god alone ?

PSacramento

jhine, no, you didn't misinterpret my views.

The reason we have many denominations is NOT because of differences in central theologicla doctrine but differences in interpretations of the "outlining" ones.

All religions have this of course, there are different denominations in Islam, In Judaisim, Hinduism, buddhisim, etc, etc.

If a person, like designs, doesn't see the difference in one over the other, then he is entitiled tohis view of course.

Mainstream Christianity allows for differences of opinion and dialouges, it didn't always of course, but it has grown and evolved.

54

If Jesus is god???!!!

by El_Guapo in

jw
friends

(john 8:42; 1 john 4:9).

(mt.

PSacramento

p.s. - On the polytheism note, calling Jesus "a god" in no way is accurate as it relates to polytheism, as the arguements above are to actual trinitarianism.

If Jesus is " a god" and He is worshipped, as he was by Christians since the beginning of the Christian movement, then they worship more than one God, since they also worship Jesus' Father as God as well.

Polytheisim is the belief and worship of more than one god.

pol·y·the·ism (pl-th-zm, pl-thz-m)

n. The worship of or belief in more than one god.

27

Does fear of death equate to need for God?

by Monsieur in

read a very interesting opinion article on cnn last night.

"why i raise my kids without god".. .

the writer aluded to the fear of the possibility of one's life ending forever (along with our beloved children's).

PSacramento

Puny mortals and your fear of death !!!
BWWAAHHH !!!

*flies off via buttocks power*

54

If Jesus is god???!!!

by El_Guapo in

jw
friends

(john 8:42; 1 john 4:9).

(mt.

PSacramento

The trinity is a doctrien of nature and not identity.

It states that Father, SOn and HS are share the same nature.

That's all.

If that is not the case, if Jesus and His Father do NOT share the same nature ( Both are God), then the writers of the GOJ and Paul are guilty of stating just that.