Posts by jgnat

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

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I see faith as residing on our emotional side rather than the reasoning side. For all of us, our visceral reactions come from the emotions and we merely use reason to justify our decisions. Occassionally reason can temper, or modify our behaviour.

Not all illogical choices are immoral! Many of us chose our life partners that way!

Selecting the bible over a medical textbook to perform medical procedures is stupid, not immoral. Conducting a medical procedure that could lead to harm is immoral. There's a difference! We still have priests anoint the sick with oil, but they do not stand in the way of modern medicine. For the patient, even though such an anointing is archaic with no medical backing, it may provide solace.

We see modern medicine not standing in the way of many illogical health choices today including a wide range of diet schemes, herbal, micronutrient, anti-gluten, anti-dairy, and other "natural" cures. As long as these schemes don't harm the patient or prohibit the patient from accessing conventional medicine, they are left alone. Why are they left alone? Because as long as they do no harm, it is not immoral!

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

jgnat

Exactly! Faith is neither moral or immoral because morality is on a completely other plane! Logic and reason are neither moral or immoral because arguments for the greater good can lead to perfectly reasonable atrocities!

10

help! i'm lite on the lingo

by venting in

what is the borg?

what are dubs?

i know i'm forgetting some.

jgnat

TTAT - The Truth about The Truth

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

jgnat

Qcmbr, if choosing a demonstrably poorer data set is immoral, then romance, lust, and hope are also immoral. I say for that reason choosing stupid is not immoral.

Here are some behaviours I put on the immoral list; taking advantage of the vulnerable, failed reciprocity, dishonesty, and murder. One neither needs faith to do these things, nor are these acts the works of the faithless. Faith is neither moral or immoral.

I agree, sunny, that communal faith (bee behaviour) can lead to atrocities such as the Salem witch trials. It was as if the entire community fell in to a frenzy, and the participants could barely explain their behaviour. Faith gone wrong.

A pet peeve of mine are those people who are self-declared as "full of faith" who insist that their beliefs are reasonable.

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

jgnat

Is stupid equivalent to immoral?

Also, given the example of "helping" in ignorance as immoral, I disagree. The example is preventing a parent from cutting off a child's arm, not knowing that the arm is gangrenous. The courts distinguish between overt acts of harm, and those that are unintentional.

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

jgnat

Mad Giant, we may be in another semantic dance. I equate reason and logic as the same thing. I am using the same region of my brain and conducting the same activities to come to a conclusion.

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

jgnat

I would suggest that faith is similarly a complex emotional desire. Similarly all three are illogical.

25

A must to be MS?

by crazyhorse in

so is it a must and an absolute requirement to be a ministerial servant in the org?.

i was told that if i refuse an appointment as an ms then it means i'm opposing "jehovah's call to service".

jgnat

Noooo.....

You have earnestly prayed about it and your bible-trained conscience has directed you to turn down the appointment. Who is this man who claims to speak for Jehovah? Can he read hearts?

82

Is Faith Immoral?

by Coded Logic in

when people willfully believe something without evidence, or contrary to evidence, are they neglecting thier moral responsibility?

so many people say faith is a virtue but i just can't comprehend why anyone would think that.

.

jgnat

Sorry for my late re-entrance to this thread. I think the topic is important. I've been busy IRL.

Cofty, I do hope you do not include me in the number who "resorts to semantics" to avoid difficult questions.

MadGiant, morals may be a product of our evolutionary heritage, but they are not logical. Though their expression may vary by culture, all people share a basic set of drivers and aversions. Haidt demonstrated this through an ingenious set of stories that are morally repulsive but logically coherent (no harm). Subjects could not explain why the scenario was fundamentally wrong. http://moralfoundations.org/ The only "logic" in our choices is shaped by evolutionary accident (this behavior leads to a world of trouble, that does not). I could also argue that the virtue of faith is one of the evolutionary holdovers, revered by the majority of the populace and may indeed be necessary. Unified in religious faith, a community may choose to work together (bee behaviour) to expel a danger. Religious faith because that is what we have got. We don't currently have a forceful gaia religion to expel perhaps, the danger of global warming.

Even athiests attempt to break through a believer's mental armour by pointing out that some of the activities of the OT god are morally reprehensible. How can a god be all-powerful and all-loving while allowing atrocities to exist? But, from a purely logical point of view, what is an atrocity? Where do we get that fundamental reverence for life, all life? I'm not attributing this to god, but we all have it.

Coded Logic, the only reason I introduced romance and hope in to this conversation is to point out that there are many good things we do that is contrary to evidence. Just because we do many illogical things it does not follow that they are immoral.

9

September 1, 1914, last known passenger pigeon, died in the Cincinnati Zoo.

by pseudoxristos in

jw
friends

it is both interesting and sad to note that the last passenger pigeon died on september 1, 1914.. the species went from being one of the most abundant birds in the world during the 19th century to extinction early in the 20th century.

.... on september 1, 1914, martha, the last known passenger pigeon, died in the cincinnati zoo.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/passenger_pigeon.

even if we are able to clone dozens or even hundreds, it is unlikely that we will be able to bring them back.. some have suggested cloning the passenger pigeon in the future.

jgnat

Great Auk. Get the spelling right.

Auk Baillie

Progress on bringing the Passenger Pigeon back. http://longnow.org/revive/what-we-do/passenger-pigeon/