Posts by JWoods

82

So...is David Splaine the new bible scholar (or Fred Franz) of the WTBTS?

by Joliette in

was watching the faith dvd yesterday, and he seems like a smarty pants know it all?

he doesnt seem like a hard hitter or bad ass or anything, but it seems like the kinda guy, that if you went out in field service with, that he would constantly correct you, and have smart ass comments to make about the householders who arent intrested in owning a watchtower or awake..

JWoods

I have not kept up with the current bunch, but I would hazard a guess that we have not yet seen the next true heavyweight.

The next to really rule the roost may well be a young charismatic turk who comes in just at the right time (old guys are about senile, he convinces a compliant majority of younger ones) and I would be willing to guess that it will probably be twenty years before the cards are stacked for it to happen. If it ever happens, of course.

Until then, legal & financial department continues to really run the show.

40

Mind Control

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

so i've been reading stephen hassan's book on mind control and he made an interesting point that made me think about myself.

he asks the question, "what makes some people just walk out of cults on their own, while others require much harsher measures from others to get them out?".

most of you know that i was thoroughly indoctrinated as a jw.

JWoods

So maybe to help someone "get out" you should begin by encouraging them to see things (maybe not even religious things) from an OUTSIDE view. From a source OUTSIDE the society?

Well, I can tell you that I saw this girl's interview while still inside the JWs (but starting to think something was decidedly wrong), and it sure made me think about whether or not I would have had the guts she did in the same position.

I know that this Jonestown incident made a lot of JWs secretly think about how cult-like their religion actually was.

40

Mind Control

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

so i've been reading stephen hassan's book on mind control and he made an interesting point that made me think about myself.

he asks the question, "what makes some people just walk out of cults on their own, while others require much harsher measures from others to get them out?".

most of you know that i was thoroughly indoctrinated as a jw.

JWoods

I saw a TV interview in Oklahoma City of a teenage girl who ran away from the Jim Jones Peoples Temple and escaped during the poisoning.

They asked her when she decided to run. She said she had decided to get out several weeks prior to the end - and the reason was that somehow she saw a cable or taped TV image of the OU Sooners football team and then-coach Barry Switzer.

She said - I looked at Coach Switzer, and then thought about Jim Jones whining about how sick he was and just thought - "This guy is not God, he is not Jesus Christ - he is not even much of a man. So I made up my mind to get out."

So, I think the conjecture that having trusted outside reference points is a very valid one.

22

Jehovah's Witnesses not a protestant religion? (from The Watchtower 2009)

by Joliette in

jehovahs witnesses do not consider themselves to be a protestant religion.

protestantism arose in 16th-century europe in an effort to reform the roman catholic church.

the word protestant was first applied to the followers of martin luther at the diet of speyer in 1529. since then, the term has generally come to describe all those who adhere to the tenets and goals of the reformation.

JWoods

They just can't stand to give the protestants any credit for ever doing anything of value.

It's OK, though, because they hate the Catholics (and the Adventists, for that matter) just as much.

It again makes you wonder who they think the "true faithful christians" really were all those years between the apostles and CTRussell.

82

So...is David Splaine the new bible scholar (or Fred Franz) of the WTBTS?

by Joliette in

was watching the faith dvd yesterday, and he seems like a smarty pants know it all?

he doesnt seem like a hard hitter or bad ass or anything, but it seems like the kinda guy, that if you went out in field service with, that he would constantly correct you, and have smart ass comments to make about the householders who arent intrested in owning a watchtower or awake..

JWoods

Didn't Ray's research for the Aid book create the Governing Body idea? I may be mistaken about that. But then, I thought that that led to Fred not being in line for the power he longed. If that were true, a little animosity perhaps?

Probably not only Ray, but also Ed Dunlap and several others. Of course - you remember that Freddy was (briefly) a Knorr-style sole president before the GB was instituted as the real power structure. He never got over being stripped of this. It has always been my notion that many of the hardliners wanted Freddy out too - they were burned by the failed 1975, and Freddy was getting more and more unreasonable and harder to deal with...so, internal politics may have had as much to do with forming the GB as Aid book research.

23

Did Any JW Here Ever Believe They Were Going To Heaven & Not Paradise Earth?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

JWoods

I think paradise earth is bogus.

The JW notion, yes, by all means. But the real earth we have now is pretty much a paradise compared to Mars or Venus, right? Maybe we should just enjoy it more while we are here - (hint to JWs, selling magazines during practically every waking hour is not really that enjoyable)

82

So...is David Splaine the new bible scholar (or Fred Franz) of the WTBTS?

by Joliette in

was watching the faith dvd yesterday, and he seems like a smarty pants know it all?

he doesnt seem like a hard hitter or bad ass or anything, but it seems like the kinda guy, that if you went out in field service with, that he would constantly correct you, and have smart ass comments to make about the householders who arent intrested in owning a watchtower or awake..

JWoods

Sweeny, I've often thought it was strange that Freddy didn't defend Ray AT ALL. I wonder if he was behind much of what happened in 79/80. Ray didn't believe Freddy just because he said it was true like the rest of the GB did. I tend to think that Ray was one of the only ones holding alot of the false teachings back. Once he was gone it seems like they were able to change things unchecked.

The Dunlaps thought that for one thing, there was always a rivalry (in the mind at least of Freddy) between himself and Ray. They also believed that Freddy was in the early stages of dementia at the time of the scandal and that the only thing he really had on his mind was how terrible the Governing Body idea was - mainly because it diminished his power of finally getting to be president. This was a common topic of conversation between him and the hot tub boys (resentment of the GB) and some of them told it to Ed behind Freddy's back.

61

Do Some JWs Go to Heaven?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

do some jw's go to heaven?

i read both of ray franz's books, and i was left with the impression that in his opinion, being a christian and being a jw were not necessarily mutually exclusive.

some of my christian coworkers have also expressed similar thoughts, when they say that there are "christ's brothers" within many different denominations.

JWoods

JWoods -- Very interesting, thank you. It's this idea of a 'Big' God, who is not playing a game of Gotcha!, narrowly defining his children, that is most appealing to me.

Indeed that kind of non-vengeful God is more appealing. I just have not gotten past the idea of why the creator-God of Adam and Eve had to legalistically kill them in the first place over eating a piece of fruit.

23

Did Any JW Here Ever Believe They Were Going To Heaven & Not Paradise Earth?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

JWoods

Minimus - it might be worth mentioning that if anybody is both a "believer" and also has even a halfway decent knowledge of science, an everlasting Paradise Earth is a pretty unsupportable idea - so the Heaven idea is (while not really explainable or provable) probably less in violation of simple proven science than eternal physical watermelon picnics with lions standing about.

23

Did Any JW Here Ever Believe They Were Going To Heaven & Not Paradise Earth?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

JWoods

>> Add on to say for the record, that after a couple of years being out, and independent study of outside philosophy and science, I just gave up most religious ideas and consider myself an agnostic now...