Posts by inbetween

17

Are you a Christian? How often do you challenge your beliefs?

by cyberjesus in

until 6 months ago, i had faith in jehovah, jesus and the bible.

i was not a jw ( i had been dfd 15 years ago) but i was planning on going back.

i questioned some basic beliefs on the wts and discovered i had been lied to for over 35 years.

inbetween

often, and starting especially sinc ethe WTS put so much emphasis on personal study and family worship, I took also time to find asnwers for deeper questions.

Time and again I could see, the answers found on the WT-Library are not always satisfying, more questions were left open than answered.

This questioning led to seeing inconsistencies in doctrines and even outright contradictions.

once the questioning rreally starts, it doenst end,

It finally led to question even Gods existence.

Now I am after looking again a bit on science (free from WTS approved material) I still see proof for existence of a higher being.

Regarding the bible, I am not sure, since all my faith in Gods word was based upon one-sided information from the ORG.

Esp. some events on the OT make no sense to me...on the other hand, I will make good use of it to help others to see how far the WTS is in many aspects from the true message of Gods word (no matter if it is his word or not)

21

Is the Governing Body really Jehovah's mouthpiece?

by dgp in

on another thread, african gb member wondered whether the members of the governing body really believe what they preach.

and that led me to this thought:.

unless i misunderstood what i have read, the governing body claims that jehovah communicates with them and tells them what to do.

inbetween

very interesting, I am looking for "non-apostae" (no pun intended) information on how the GB comes to their conclusions by voting.

atm I dont have access to youtube, but is this video reliable ?

I ask, because I want to share this info with others, but if it is any remotely connected to apostates, red flags will go up, and I achieve nothing.

For that reason I believe the CoC of ray Franz surely has accurate insider information, but I cannot use it, because its labeled apostate.

31

Beards?

by Think About It in

jw
friends

i'm new here and probably missed the latest discussion of the beard topic.

what's the latest on beards in jw society?

i'm 2 weeks into a beard and just got to wondering about it.

inbetween

not such a big deal here, some congos will not let you on stage, others dont care.

Here we had years ago a short discussion, but ended with a liberal timely approach. No problem, if overall appearance is neat.

But I know from other halls it causes sometimes divisons between hardliners and liberals among the elders.

41

Site To Refute Franz And Cameron

by Bangalore in

i found this site set up by a loyal jw who wants to refute books like "crisis of conscience" and "captives of a concept".

i thought loyal jw's were not even supposed to read such books.. .

http://settingtherecordstraight.wordpress.com/2010/01/.

inbetween

interesting, i wish we had more sites like this, why?

many things I´ve been looking at since a few month here and on other sides are raising many issues concerning the WTS.

While, as most here, I had doubts and problems with some WTS teachings and practices before, the internet enlightened my horizon much more, so that today I know, this can not be Gods organsation.

however, some accusations proved to be onesided or simply wrong.

There are serveral reasons, why whoever acts as an apologist, should have a possibility to voice their defend:

1) in order to see the facts, it is helpful to know different opinions. It may give a balanced view. based on that, an informative judgment on a certain matter be made.

2) if one of the issues ever becomes an argument with other JW, elders or any apologists, it is very helpful to know what arguments they may use for defense. Sometimes reading apologist sides, first you may understand their point, even tend to agree. Then you need time to think over and see the flaws in their arguments. But if you hear them the first time, you may be unprepared and therefore tend to give in.

3) In some cases a weak defense even supports the issue more than no defense. I may illustrate: While reading some chapters of CoC, I always have in the back of my mind, well "who knows if Ray Franz is right", maybe he also presents half-truths (no pun intended, its just because esp. after dealing with the half-truths of the WTS, people become even more sceptical). But when you see, how apologists try to refute his arguments, they get even more weight. When you see, how they use red herring and strawman strategies, then you know, that he is really telling the truth.

just my 2 cents,

inbetween

60

Did you loathe going in field service, if so why?

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

i always felt like i was not a "spiritual" person because i loathed going in field service.

i'm not even sure why i loathed it.

i am very outgoing and can talk to anyone, anytime, about anything.

inbetween

hate to disturb people, its absolutely not my nature, and as "teel" mentioned, i do not like it either to e disturbed in my daily routine.

some aspects though of FS are indeed enjoyable, when you were able to use the bible and have a good discussion. I didnt mind even if someone did not agree and had reasons for it .

and I prefer country areas, where long walks are between houses, hated door to door in an apartment complex,....

9

Galatians 1:8 contradicts WTS

by inbetween in

lately there were a lot of articles, like this:.

never questions gods channel of communication (matth 24:45-47).

follow whatever direction comes from the gb.

inbetween

lately there were a lot of articles, like this:

never questions Gods channel of communication (Matth 24:45-47)

follow whatever direction comes from the GB

and the like,

however, reading the Bible can be sometime svery enlightening, so i came across this scripture:

Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or (Q) an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, (R) let him be accursed"

Notice Paul even included himself:"if WE or an angel..." So the readers of Pauls letter (which were inspired btw) were eeven encouraged to question him. If they just accept anything without thinking, how can they find out, whether it was contrary to the Gospel or not.

The GB thinks it is above even apostla Paul, they are not just on Moses seat, no they even replace God himself.

disgusting actually...

138

JWs having Facebook Sex - Strongly warned to get off FB at CA yesterday

by shopaholic in

jw
friends

so it appears that jws are letting their freaky side come out on fb for everyone to see.. there was talk on the ca yesterday strongly warning all true lovers of jehovah to delete their fb accounts.

the talk was solely about fb.

the speaker mentioned that jws are associating with people that would not associate with in real life, often using the excuse that the person is a relative.

inbetween

in my area, a lot of JW use Facebook, among them elders and MS.

Personally I do have an account, even though, I just check it once a week, not too much into it. Good for sharing Photos, and wasting some time, thats it.

No talk, from CO or anybody else ever mentioned it so far. We will ahve our CA this spring, will be interesting...

oh btw, we seen twilight and new moon, is that worse than having a FB account ?

guess we are bad examples .....

19

The 144K

by PSacramento in

yeah, i know, another thread..... i really don't want to discuss the "annointed" 144k, i wanna discuss a few passages related to them and the great crowd.. first off:.

the 144,000 of israel sealed.

7 after this i saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back uthe four winds of the earth, vthat no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree.

inbetween

just had a flash of new light :

the 24 elders are in fact the governing body !

So its in the bible, the governing body, they rule as kings over the other kings!

wait a moment, I am not anointed, so maybe next memorial I should start partaking, and then I have a chance to become one of the 24 elders myself...

5

core doctrins

by inbetween in

the idea came up, when a poster (sorry cant find the thread) mentioned something about, that as long as the wts do not change core-doctrins, most jw would not mind.. changing things like "generation", "sealing of anointed" etc, they take as new light, and dont see any problem... it made me think, what actually are core doctrins for jw ?.

some say, teachings like no trinity, soul, hellfire, paradise earth etc.... while this is true, i think we must define, what are really core-doctrins:.

my definition:.

inbetween

nugget: interesting viewpoint, maybe we should add the babtism questions too.

the other problem is, I think, I can believe, what I want, as long as I dont voice it, or try to convince others.

In my hall are quite some who do not agree with everything published, they just dont try to convince others, and they are not in trouble.

Its a unity by appearance in many cases and not by heart.

teel: This puzzled me always, the very definition of being a wintess is giving a witness, and yet, by not giving a witness, one still can remain a witness, strange...

other doctrines, you can do differently, without being dfd: getting a higher education, toasting, watching violent movies, embracing during prayer, marrying outside the "truth", ...

5

core doctrins

by inbetween in

the idea came up, when a poster (sorry cant find the thread) mentioned something about, that as long as the wts do not change core-doctrins, most jw would not mind.. changing things like "generation", "sealing of anointed" etc, they take as new light, and dont see any problem... it made me think, what actually are core doctrins for jw ?.

some say, teachings like no trinity, soul, hellfire, paradise earth etc.... while this is true, i think we must define, what are really core-doctrins:.

my definition:.

inbetween

the idea came up, when a poster (sorry cant find the thread) mentioned something about, that as long as the WTS do not change core-doctrins, most JW would not mind.

Changing things like "generation", "sealing of anointed" etc, they take as new light, and dont see any problem..

It made me think, what actually are core doctrins for JW ?

Some say, teachings like no trinity, soul, hellfire, paradise earth etc...

While this is true, I think we must define, what are really core-doctrins:

My definition:

If you do not follow a particular doctrine, and as a consequence, will get you Disfellowshipped, then its a core-doctrine !

Considering this, many core-doctrins in fact did change:

example:

smoking prohbited and DF-offense in the 60, I think.

Making civil-service, permitted after 1996, before, guess what ? df-offense

definition of porneia, changed in the 70`s (including practices in marriage) , later more changed in 2006, QFR-article

blood, what is allowed, what not, changes over time...

what pagan festivals one can celebrate, what not (no birthdays, but Pinata allowed etc)

how much can you get involved in politics (voting )

This thought can be extended even to almost all doctrines, because imagine, some years ago, you were publically teaching the generation meaning the anointed who overlap, you would get in trouble for apostacy.

The same is true regarding many flip flops (resurrection, organ transplants etc)

Another factor is, those things have much more influence in daily life, then lets say, believing in trinity, or an immortal soul.

just some ideas, I appreciate any input

inbetween.