I wonder if this talk earned him a friendly chat with the elders after the meeting.
I was one of the elders, and I commended him actually, funny thing though, most complaints about his talk came from the "average" publishers...
inbetween
JoinedPosts by inbetween
-
65
So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....
by Mr. Falcon in...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.
and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.
it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.
-
-
-
35
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-27-11 WT Study (SING)
by blondie inreview comments will be headed by comments.
book of psalms._read psalm 8:3, 4, 7-9.. .
praise god in song.. .
-
-
inbetween
glad we missed meeting this time. I was sick (really !) wife kind of faked it, she was really not in the mood to go (funny, she is mentally still in ..kind of...)and I didnt stop her from staying home...
But as a good dub, I prepared of course ;-)
and once again, I wonder, who writes articles like that ? especially the reason given for the new song book, because light got brighter , huh ?
why not simply change the terms form "new order" to "new world" etc, doesnt need to compose completely new music , mostly depressing tunes anyway ?
There is little subtsance lately in the articles, its usually a repetition of certain topics like: how to improve field servcie ? How to avoid satans influence (internet, entertainment, porn, apostate etc) How to behave at meetings, assemblies etc, you name it,
very rare are indepth discussions , it all remains on the surface, and almost in every article, they contradict themselves or write some really stupid comments.
-
65
So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....
by Mr. Falcon in...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.
and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.
it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.
-
-
inbetween
very interesting thread. Believe it or not, but my actually first eye-opener to the concept of evolution was during a talk in my kingdomhall.
The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things. I personally liked this approach, and I learned more from this talk than from the dozens of other mindless talks being given every weekend.
Hwoever, for many, this talk was too intellectual, and he was quit critisized for it.
Of course, the goal of the talk was to strenghten the beleif of a creator, but looking back, it was much closer to the real concept of evolution than the ussual JW reasoning.
-
81
Here i am....
by makersmark inhere i am - born in truth, hard-core spiritual everything all my life, early reg.pioneer, ms, elder, assembly parts, tour at bethel, etc, married now...... i'm trying to examine jw teachings a little closer...... i've spent the last two weeks reading many many posts, info , references on where ex-jw's are coming from.
i'm kind of concerned about a few things lately..... honestly - some points make sense to me - some don't - here are my general thoughts:.
-wt getting un membership for access to library - doesnt bother me - some passports and other governement documents have similar forms and requirements..... -blood issue - some counterpoints to the jw 'rules' makes sense (original intent of scripture is unbled animals, white blood cells similar in mothers milk) etc -however a lot of 'apostate' reasonings and proof are inaccurate.
-
-
inbetween
welcome markersmark,
being here can be the begin of an incredible adventure, opening your mind in a way, unthinkable in witness-org.
and stay open minded in both ways. When I joined here, it was mostly the blood issue, that bothered me. Sites like www.ajwrb.org have very profound arguments. When I read them the first time, I was very fast convinced, that our blood doctrine has serious flaws. And I always was interested in it, in my hall, it was always me who had to handle the complicated parts on blood, too technical for most. Maybe you can elaborate on what issues apostates are inaccurate regarding the counterarguments on blood-issue ?
The problem with JW in general, they base many things on the bible, but then go overboard, just like the Pharisees did with the moasic law.
example: preaching, still I think is a basic requirement for a Christian religion, however, what about giving reports, pioneering, etc
another example: disfellowshipping, as some posters mentioned, certainly of value in the biblical sense, but JW construct so many rules with it, some even secret, and way too rigid. Some reasons for it even not mentioned in the bible...
What also shocked me in the beginning was the use of language of some posters here. While I still do not approve of it, I understand, that they suffered a lot from the rigid rules of JW, so for them its like therapy. Now it does not bother me too much anymore.
Anyway, what I found here, is a forum, where you openly can discuss things, without repurcussions. Something impossible in the congregation without raising red flags.
and what i like too, sometimes stupid rumours or accusations come up, but this forum helps to quickly dismiss or expose them. Socalled "apostate lies" will not prevail here.
O f course, some issues are for some important, for others not. When it comes to citing old literatur, I always thought too, ok why bring up old stuff, we revised and know it better now, Gods org is not perfect. And it would not be a problem at all, its actually a sign of humility to change your teaching after finding out its wrong. The problem is, when you start saying, you are the only channel of God, the sheep are not allowed to challenge you, they have to take everything you say as coming from God, and when you finally have to change things, then say it is new light from Jehovah. This is suppressive and deceptive the same time.
So welcome again, maybe, if you like, you might want to tell a bit about your story ?
-
21
Song- "we're Jehovah's Witnesses" in honor of this weeks WT study
by stuckinamovement inthis was the last song of the service meeting this week.
the new version sounds like a death march anthem.
the melody has changed and i think the words have also.. i truly used to like that song and it was one of the first song's i could sing as a kid.
-
-
inbetween
I used to actually like this song too, but its true, it is completely lifeless now...
-
5
The potato-counting argument
by bohm inseing what a great success my last thread in this series was, http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/206501/1/the-cargo-cult-arguments-and-how-to-deal-with-them, i couldnt help doing another :-).. .
imagine alice and bob both each has a sack of potatoes, but they cant agree which is the heavier, and are having and argument about it.. suddenly alice get an idea.
she produce the content of her bag, 3 irregularily medium-sized potatoes, and say to bob: "i know how we can solve this once and for all!".
-
-
inbetween
wow, thanks, I love those kind of posts....
however, the problem is, that for most witnesses , their three potatoes are still bigger than the whole bag of potatoes of other opinions.
so I agree, it is important to show, that even this 3 potatoes are already rotten and worth nothing...
-
80
What is it with all the men waking up but the wives stay in? Why is it the opposite for me?
by Cadellin inthis is something i've thought about for a while now.
it seems like the same story on this board over and over--the husband, who also might be an elder, ms, etc.--starts having doubts and researching, aka miseryloveselders and franklin massey and others.
he starts to smell the coffee and realizes that this organization isn't what it claims to be.
-
-
inbetween
Since I`ve been married I learned a lot about how woman function, and I´m still learning and it amazes me often.
Trying to help my wife to wake up is like a rollercoaster, and somehow I can grasp a bit why. Challenging your lifelong hold belief system was even for me as a man quite tough on the emotional level, and still is to some extent.
However, often after some discussions, where I try to help open her eyes, and even if she disagrees on the spot, later on she admits, thinking about it and its bugging her, that the org says this or does that.
and sometimes she even surprises me with "independant" thoughts, that even I did not think about. I commend her for that, and we openly discuss doctrine and other things.
However, I totally agree with the observation, that as an elder it seperates you from the flock and to some extend isolates you. I have no close friends in our hall (I know too much about people there and hate the knowledge), my friends are from other halls.
For my wife, she is a bit more connected, however, as she is my best friend, and I am hers, also this is not the real problem.
I think, for most situations like that, patience and love are the keys on the long run...
-
11
Misapplication of Philippians 3:7-8?
by dontplaceliterature inphilippians 3:7-8 is often quoted from the platform, and in watchtower literature as applied to material possessions and "worldly" gain.
i distinctly remember it being quoted in the young people ask video where the young boy's grandmother was trying to discourage him from being a track star.. however, when reading the scripture last night, i got the impression that paul wasn't talking about those things at all.
he was of course talking to jew's here.
-
-
inbetween
very good point, yes reading the context often disproves the special WTS interpretation of scriptures...
kind of wierd, since the society always encourages to read the context.....
-
19
wife seen part of "dateline" online, about pedophile in JW land
by inbetween ina short update on my situation.. i am still in, trying to help my family to see the light.
my wife is open to critisize certain aspects of the wts, reads wt articles with a critical mind, but she still views them as gods org, and at times can get quit defensive about it.. last night though, she seemed devastated about a program she watched, reagrding pedophiles (dateline i guess).
she was very disturbed, even to the point of being depressed.
-
-
inbetween
ambersun: her background contributes to it as well, she seen hypocrisy and mistakes, but also how really bad people, that hurt her as well, became dfd, so she agrees with it in a way...
newchapter: she was home and just fooling around on the internet (instead of going in field circus, bad girl ) and she typed in Jehovah witness, just out of curiosity...
Blacksheep: while its true what you say, it is something working maybe for you and me, but she never was too deep into doctrine, I bet, she is not even aware of the 1919 choice of Jesus. She never could explain how to come to 1914, but for her important is the classical no trinity, no soul, no hellfire, but paradise earth, which makes total sense to her. and of course, seeing her grandparents there, kept her going, despite mistreatement in the org.
-
19
wife seen part of "dateline" online, about pedophile in JW land
by inbetween ina short update on my situation.. i am still in, trying to help my family to see the light.
my wife is open to critisize certain aspects of the wts, reads wt articles with a critical mind, but she still views them as gods org, and at times can get quit defensive about it.. last night though, she seemed devastated about a program she watched, reagrding pedophiles (dateline i guess).
she was very disturbed, even to the point of being depressed.
-
-
inbetween
a short update on my situation.
I am still in, trying to help my family to see the light. My wife is open to critisize certain aspects of the WTS, reads WT articles with a critical mind, but she still views them as Gods org, and at times can get quit defensive about it.
Last night though, she seemed devastated about a program she watched, reagrding pedophiles (dateline I guess)
she was very disturbed, even to the point of being depressed. I listend to her complaints, thinking, how can I really help her. I could just let out everything I know, but this would just add to her feeling miserable, and it would probably cause her to become find excuses for the procedure of the WTS. And I think, she didnt quit get the whole point, since she tended to blame individuals rather then the org.
additionally she must have come across some "apostates" that acted strange, trying to encourage every one to partake at the memorial and so on. Unfortunately, I have to say, actions like that do not help people to wake up, it rather confirms the demonizing of apostates, that the WTS always tries to convey.
Anyway, I get the impression, her mind is slowly opening up towards information outside the WTS literature, otherwise she would have such a program just clicked off.
However, she still clings to the idea, JW are Gods org, and Jehovah will weed out all bad ones (e.g. pedophiles)
So my big question, how should I proceed ? I dont think, I can guide her to real apostate sites yet, it is still too early...
and also, to confront her with what is clear to us, that there is no truth, or gods org, might be tooo devastating for her..I fear really for her emotional stability...!!