Posts by dgp

37

How come you have to wait on Jehovah? Shouldn't he be faster than you?

by dgp in

if jehovah created the universe, knows it all, et cetera, and then he has a direct line to the governing body, how come you're always told to "wait on jehovah"?

can a simple earthling be faster in his or her reasoning than yhwh?

can s/he notice something jehovah will miss?.

dgp

LongHairGal: to get an answer to your question, whether they really believe in Jehovah...

you'll have to wait on Jehovah!!!

24

Independent verification of Mexico Vs. Malawi

by Knowsnothing in

i posted on manki's crisis of conscience thread the following, and decided it deserves a thread of it's own (giving it was completely ignored, lol).

i'll give you a head start, manky.. http://tearsofoberon.blogspot.com/2009/10/mexico-military-and-jwsthe-truth.html.

under the subheading 6.0 lies and exaggerations, he goes on to say this:.

I haven't read the entirety of the article in the link posted by Knownothing. I skimmed through it and I think I find an omission there. One that Ray Franz does not fail to explicitly mention. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, it is the center of his allegation concerning Mexico.

The point that is missing is that Jehovah's witnesses did not really need to pay a bribe. Mexican law explicitly exempts "religious ministers" from the requirement of registering or participating in the military service. It has been that way since 1942, which is the year when the Regulations to the National Military Service Act were published. All the Watchtower needed to do was to identify male witnesses as "religious ministers" to get an exemption.

The heart of the matter is that, in order to do so, the Watchtower would have needed to operate in Mexico as a religious entity. Meaning they would have to put all of their property in the hands of the Mexican government, as all other religious persuasions had to do. Mexico had a notoriously anti-religious government; just for the sake of comparison with the United States, I understand that Ernesto Zedillo was the first acting Mexican president to set foot in a church in 200 years. And that was twelve years ago or so.

The Watchtower presented itself as a "cultural" association. It did not use the Bible in its preaching, and it did not claim to "baptize" any member, but to "perform the rite". Of course the Mexican government knew about this. They just let them get away with it for a while. It is my impression that one of the ways social control is exerted in Mexico is to let you break the law and pretend no one notices, only so that violation can be used against you at the "right" time.

The requirement to give control of religious property to the State has been abolished, and that is why the Watchtower no longer claims to be "a cultural organization".

I interacted with someone who presents himself as a Mexican witness today. I asked him about military service today. He says that, nowadays, Mexican male witnesses routinely send their papers to the branch office, so they get exempted from the military service.

What this means is that it was possible for the Watchtower to operate within the law of the "land", as they would call it. They chose to evade the law instead, and this happened because they wanted to maintain control of material assets.

It should be highlighted that this military service was never what you would call a serious thing.

I also notice that the article in the link does not directly quote Mexican laws. I believe that is infortunate, but it does not invalidate the conclusions reached by Raymond Franz against the Watchtower.

Here is a link to the actual text of the Act, enacted in 1942:

http://www.sedena.gob.mx/pdf/leyes/ley_smn.pdf

These are the regulations (1942 as well)

http://www.sedena.gob.mx/pdf/reglamentos/rglmto_ley_smn.pdf

(Find Article 38 and you'll see)

This document also discusses military service in Mexico:

http://catarina.udlap.mx/u_dl_a/tales/documentos/ledi/santos_g_d/capitulo4.pdf

All I needed to do was Google "ley del servicio militar nacional". These are publicly available documents.

I believe the article in the link most regretfully omits the fact that "religious ministers" were always able to get exemption from military service, with nothing but a formal statement of their church's authorities identifying them as such.

57

It's my birthday :-)

by poopsiecakes in

jw
friends

...and i'm shamelessly looking for love from my jwn peeps!

.

dgp

Happy Birthday, Poopsie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8cTmbU0xVo&feature=related

37

How come you have to wait on Jehovah? Shouldn't he be faster than you?

by dgp in

if jehovah created the universe, knows it all, et cetera, and then he has a direct line to the governing body, how come you're always told to "wait on jehovah"?

can a simple earthling be faster in his or her reasoning than yhwh?

can s/he notice something jehovah will miss?.

dgp

If Jehovah created the universe, knows it all, et cetera, and then he has a direct line to the Governing Body, how come you're always told to "wait on Jehovah"? Can a simple earthling be faster in his or her reasoning than YHWH? Can s/he notice something Jehovah will miss?

How fitting would it be if you came up with an idea and zap! Jehovah already thought of that and solved it a generation, erm, many generations, ago.

What do you guys think?

152

To garyneal and Others, Evidence that the anointed remnants represented by the GB were selected in 1919.

by mankkeli in

1st evidence: the release of loyal jews from exile, made possible by the fall of babylon, foreshadowed the release in 1919 of anointed christians from spiritual exile.

2nd evidence: that year marked the beginning of the period when the anointed remnants were released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion.

although having rejected such false teachings as the trinity and the immortal soul, they were still tainted by babylonish practices.

dgp

By the way, since when there is a "season" for meat? I would say there are seasons for avocados, for apples, for oranges, but, meat?

Unless they are talking about the "hunting season", I would believe that meat is "in season" the year round.

88

Your Thoughts, Please (Seriously)...

by AGuest in

jw
friends

may you all have peace!.

on occasion, dear ones post questions on the board that have a "legal" undertone.

sometimes those questions are just trying to get a sense of what questions such one should ask (perhaps of an attorney), sometimes they have to do with very ordinary events, and sometimes they really do require in-depth legal assistance/analysis.

dgp

Personally I think that opinions given on this site should be interpreted only as opinions. "Legal advice" should be only what you get from an attorney that you hire for the purpose.

It may be different in the United States, but I can think of many countries where people could not claim they are receiving "legal advice" from someone on an internet forum.

Besides, opinions can come from anywhere on this site. I don't think it is realistic to set national boundaries here. Someone living in, say, Cameroon, may receive an opinion on legal matters from someone living in Macao, and I don't think an American court could argue that such an opinion was given in American jurisdiction and therefore American laws should apply.

152

To garyneal and Others, Evidence that the anointed remnants represented by the GB were selected in 1919.

by mankkeli in

1st evidence: the release of loyal jews from exile, made possible by the fall of babylon, foreshadowed the release in 1919 of anointed christians from spiritual exile.

2nd evidence: that year marked the beginning of the period when the anointed remnants were released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion.

although having rejected such false teachings as the trinity and the immortal soul, they were still tainted by babylonish practices.

dgp

Mankkeli, please check Galatians.

10

Jehovah's Witnesses - Communists or Christians?

by donuthole in

jehovah's witnesses - communists or christians?.

does anyone have a copy of this 1951 tract or the text of it?.

thanks --!.

dgp

Thank you very much, Trueblue.

51

Religious People Live Longer

by mankkeli in

regular involvement in religious activities goes hand in hand with better physical health and a longer life, according to a statistical analysis of 42 independent studies published since 1977 that have addressed this issue, states science news.

religious involvement, especially the public type, showed a statistically significant relationship to higher survival rates, the scientists say.

several reasons have been proposed for the findingsthe shunning of risky behaviors, marital stability, less depression associated with matters beyond direct control, greater social contacts, and positive emotions and attitudes.

dgp

Question: Was Jesus religious, then?

11

Why would Jehovah pick Russell, erm, the Watchtower...

by dgp in

if you look at the pictures of charles taze russell, you find that the man has a goatee.

anyways, if jehovah dislikes beards, how come he picked the owner of a prominent one as his faithful and discreet slave?.

on the other hand, if jah chose an organization, and not charlie, as "some said", why didn't jehovah pick the catholic church instead?.

dgp

It is very enlightening for me to know that Jehovah does not mean to save everyone. Now that is something.

You see, in all my years as a Catholic I was told that God wants to save us, only we don't listen. We'll have to face him on the Day of Doom, but we will sort of have it coming. His mercy knows no bounds, but we don't listen.

This is quite a surprise for me, coming from a religion that demands so much preaching from their members. It sort of makes you think that the whole field service is worhtless anyways. Not only Jehovah does not mean to save everyone, he also demands that you preach, in full knowledge that he will destroy most people anyways.